Animate Dead blows...

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Tue May 04, 2004 4:28 am

Animate Dead needs to be brought up to par with the other Summon spells...
I just cast it and got a skeleton... Then, that skeleton got pwned by a CR 0.50 OX!!!

Chimaira · Post by **Chimaira** » Tue May 04, 2004 4:38 am

Nothing wrong with animate dead normally.
Its edited and I noticed that compared to the other summons, it pretty much sux. Dont know about Create undead, but that spells normally so sad that there are no words that can describe it...

dond · Post by **dond** » Tue May 04, 2004 4:39 am

same with the shadow conj line, and planar binding line of spells....all sucks :/

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Tue May 04, 2004 4:43 am

planar binding stuns all of the human subraces

dond · Post by **dond** » Tue May 04, 2004 4:46 am

yea, but it still sucks at summoning!

Chimaira · Post by **Chimaira** » Tue May 04, 2004 5:02 am

Errr what are you on about? Planar binding OWNS. That hound is as strong as a beefed lvl 5 summon, while the hound is lvl 6, only lasts 1/round per lvl because of nerfs and cant heal himself, thats simply because of the spell editing (normally, compared to other summons the hound and celestial avenger will destroy everything similar to your level at the time you get it), and that the devs needed to test wheters its balanced. Therefore we now say, planar binding spells need to be beefed up in power (not duration in my oppinion, since normally they should only last really short, but summon something that totally owns) and regular summon spells need to be toned down a BIT. The idea I got is to change summon 8 to greater planar binding...so that GPB summons a half fiend warrior/ half celestial warrior at 1 round/ per lvl(really those summons own so much, the duration shouldnt be long) summon creature 8 should summon something not as powerfull as GPB, but it should last a considerable amount of time (1 turn per lvl?)

well waddaya think about that? Not bad for someone with my intelligence eh?

dond · Post by **dond** » Tue May 04, 2004 5:05 am

hehe that makes sense

although i'd go for the summon ix and summon viii to be switched around too (the half-fiend and celestial rock the elementals, especially since you can beef up their weapons with flame weapon, keen edge, greater magic weapon)

Chimaira · Post by **Chimaira** » Tue May 04, 2004 5:29 am

Not entirely true...
The elementals have more HP, great immunities etc.
They also deal more damage in melee.
On average however(counting in crits with keen edge, and the premo bypassing ability with GMW, aswell as 10 extra dmg from flame weapon) the fiend and celestial are better on the offense, they chop through NS guards easily when buffed, their saves are sad however, a freaking ghaele kills it with death gaze 90% of the time and they have no important immunities (death, mind, critical hit immunity) while the elementals have good saves aswell as mind and crit immune(maybe death aswell, not sure since normally they dont, but it might be edited)
So as the purpose of a summon as tank, the elementals are more reliable, but in pvp, who will go after an elemental with minimal offense which is a pain to take out? PvP wise Summon 8 > Summon 9 because of that.

Psycho Dordt · Post by **Psycho Dordt** » Tue May 04, 2004 5:54 am

an other thing about pets, would it be possible to let teh Balor cast LESS spells? it wastes a lot of its time casting an anoying wall of flame. let it cast an implosion and/or a dispell and let it attack than, right now the only usefull thing for the balor is to cast an Unleashed balor and run.

un the Avorial, it uses Turn undead quite alot even if there is no Undead around.

and the half fiend warrior is so mutch less usefull than the Half celstial dude... it has less AB less AC hits for less dmg and critts for the same with a Gr Axe as teh Half celest does with a Gr Sword.

i think the lvl5 (fennbeast?) than massive hound needs a lill nerf, it solo's cr 9 critters with ease and owns a Tank of the same lvl in mellee.

Chimaira · Post by **Chimaira** » Tue May 04, 2004 7:05 am

Lol yea, i saw an avoral use turn on my celestial like 3 times, maybe she was trying to turn outsiders? Not like shes doing that to a celestial of higher lvl anyway....perhaps it should check if the turn will actually do anything before turning? The half fiend is still a good summon, its inferior to the celestial, but as long as its random its only preventing the lvl 8 summon from being really bad. If you could choose what elemental you would want on lvl 9 everyone would either go earth or water, since those are usually the better ones, that doesnt mean they should all be equal.

Kirg · Post by **Kirg** » Tue May 04, 2004 12:31 pm

Hm, I dont see how water should be good. It always uses a drown attack that mostly only damages itself. I prefer Air.
And I like the Balor. Although I find it a bit insane what CR an unleashed balor has (I forgot once to cast prot. from evil). 41? sheesh...

BR

Dyson · Post by **Dyson** » Tue May 04, 2004 12:50 pm

er...do you get XP for killing an unleashed Balor? If so, how much?

Kirg · Post by **Kirg** » Tue May 04, 2004 1:09 pm

Yup you get it. I got over 300 at lvl19.

BR

Joran · Post by **Joran** » Tue May 04, 2004 1:30 pm

As stated, well, somewhere in some other thread - AND on the bugtracker, the entire summons system has a plan for being reworked. I wrote up a nice little Excel spreadsheet that takes every spell that "brings forth" another creature of any kind, and balances it with respect to the other spells in terms of creature type, level, duration, and all that stuff.

All that's left is creating the 1,039,772 different creature templates ;)

Chimaira · Post by **Chimaira** » Tue May 04, 2004 1:36 pm

Joran wrote:As stated, well, somewhere in some other thread - AND on the bugtracker, the entire summons system has a plan for being reworked. I wrote up a nice little Excel spreadsheet that takes every spell that "brings forth" another creature of any kind, and balances it with respect to the other spells in terms of creature type, level, duration, and all that stuff.

All that's left is creating the 1,039,772 different creature templates

Thats not my area lolz >_<
probably stupid to ask ehm but err...are there gonna be over a million summons?! O_O