Resting System Discussion

[Æ]

It's simple common sense, the mage does more damage and against a non-resistant target

[Alexiagold]

All the immunities are physical

Wrong, I've found that virtually all of the dropped gear has an elemental immunuity. Now lets take your fire ball example, give that fighter an armor and shield with 15% fire resits. Fireball does normal, or perfect average damage of 45, now. The fighter takes either 31 damage in 1 round, or 15 damage if he makes the save. Now that same fighter can hit the mage for insane damage each round if they switch weapons. All of this balance forgets what has been said rather well by others, PvP, mages are tank killers, tanks kill rogue, rogues kill mages. There is a circle of life. Tanks should not usually beat mages, becuase mages will not usually beat rogues.

Give that a fighter a longsword 1d8 + 1d8 slashing, and that's an amazing 23 max damage on a non crit, twice a ronud is 46

How about 3 times a round at level 11? or are we sticking to 10 because it makes fighters look more gimped?

Then take off that 10-40% damage immunity and you're doing anywhere inbetween 28-40 non crit damage a round. Then slice off another 10/- per attack and you're down to doing inbetween 8-20 non crit damage per attack. If you double it on a crit you are still only doing 16-40 on a 2x threat range and a crit on 19-20.

Again why won't you just switch weapons? And mage robes at level 10 only give 15% immunities, with /5 resists. The 20% /10 require level 13, and the level 16 ones only give 25% /10.

fighter with low reflex saves chances are he'll be failing the majority of those saves...

That's why you don't play a low dex fighter and expect to do well against mages. If you don't want good saves, good dex, etc. then don't omplain when your dex/saves suck... They suck because you chose a build where they sucked, a build that mages own.


[/quote]

[Æ]

It's simple common sense, the mage does more damage and against a non-resistant target

And, one other really important point i neglected to mention earlier....

All mages are hasted, let's face it, that means that a fighter cannot get close enough to hit him, at all, and when we do get lucky and get close enough, and actually hit through their buffs, we need to do some damage. (And don't tell me to use a bow Alexia, that's moronic... what strength-based fighter can hit anything worth a damn with a bow?)

Also, any skilled mage of high level is going to have premonition on as well, which pretty much absorbs all damage except on critical, since no fighter is really doing 30 damage, especially with the defenses on robes.

With buffs like these, mages do NOT need imunities and resistances on their robes AT ALL.

I don't think mages should have rest restrictions, but why should they have the defensive gear that fighters NEED, when they have plenty of buffs. Fighters need defensive gear, half of a warrior character is his equipment, even in a low magic world (and we don't even have damage reduction available anymore, even though there are clases who will have that naturally)

[Knightwing4]

I am yet to see a serious reason why mages shouldn't be able to unload their spellbook, wait a bit, then rest, there's NO difference between a mage who took a 1 minute rest (like currently) and one who just spent an hour, they're still the same mage.


I have a great idea! Let's give IKD 10 charges, then let's implement the rest thing. Ohh such a great idea, oh wait, a better one, let's say you can only use 1 heal potion once per day! you get pains when you drink to much liquid before running! RP right guys?? Why aren't you guys in heavy armor tired after running for 10 straight minutes? RP PLEASE [/rant]

(Oh wait, fighters get potions that allow them to just sit there and drink while mages unleashe their awesome spells of doom!!!)

My conclusion: Saying something should be changed for RP value is STUPID, there are a billion things non RP in bioware, and changing one thing (supposedly) for "RP value" is BS.

Btw drink a few potions while i cast my highest lvl spells and you win, with your unlimited attacks/IKDs.

BTW Revenge, a fireball has much chance of doing 90 damage as 0 damage, learn to averages nub and where did your 10/- unless it's from stoneskin, in which case DYK that it lasts only casterlvl*10 damage? And where's the IKD, or does your char just suck that much? (Besides, All it takes is 'one' knockdown and the mage is toast. )

[Æ]

I don't use knockdown, and wouldn't even use it if i could spare the feats...

I fight with honor, I don't use cheap tactics or attack people unprepared, I don't heal in a duel, and i wouldn't summon for a duel even if I could (especially with the lose everything bug... have some consideration)...

This way it's all in good fun for BOTH people, that is the point of a game right?

You obviously haven't met me, everyone knows they can always count on me to be fair, nice, kind and generous... I don't even attack players who didn't attack me first, for any reason, roleplay or otherwise... it's a game, I'm having fun and i'm going to let the next guy have fun... I don't need to have fun at the expense of others

[dond]

shorten buffs and summons? you're kidding right? lol they're so short already.
hell i run out of the 1 round/lvl stuff fighting the npc group in falme.

a fighter on the other hand, he just runs into all of them, and whacks them while chugging a few heal potions.

i really don't see the problem.

mages have low ac, they're not hard to hit. with a two handed weapon, you can tear thru premo/stoneskin very easily (wm with keen two handers even easier).

if mages are prepared for a fight, then it'll be tough, and you have to change your tactics. switch your weapons if they're resisting (you can use any type of weapon as a fighter, so use them). if you get the jump on mages, fight is over in less than 10 secs.

the current problem spells i'd say are not the buffs, but bigby's (no save although short duration), and igms that shoots a high damage missile to every target in the mages field of view. (should really change that)

i have no idea where you people are getting mages resist every damage type. it's either high resist to 1 damage type, or low resists to 2. that's it. they cant change robes in combat.

most of a mages' arsenal is countered by a reflex sv and the meleer's come out without any damage whatsoever (stupid evasion and improv evasion).

as far as epic levels go, mages max out in spell power at 20. the other 20 lvls don't add much other than duration increases.

fighter types on the other hand, their svs go up much better than a mages' dc (which makes the mage bank on igms again and again since no other spell is as effective).

with the ability to multiclass, (sneak attack tanks in heavy armor, yea right), balancing would be a major chore.

i'd say balance thru the synergy attacks you're gonna put in!

[EvilIguana966]

If resist were removed from robes. mages would wear cloth.
If we removed from cloth they would wear hide and get a whoping 5% failure and so and and so forth.

I stand by my suggestions above. Only heavy armor, which is I think 40-50% spell failure should get the resists. That's plate (8 AC) , half plate (7 AC), and I think Splint Mail. 45% Arcane spell failure is a helluva price to pay for that extra protection.

I'm not really a fan of trivializing weapon spec choices. In order to even come close to the kind of damage the average caster does you have to chose a good weapon to focus in. Mine is Dwarven War Axe. It will take many feats to make it a truly fearsome weapon.

The pvp aspect isn't my number 1 concern however. The pve is. Why are so many monsters so resistant to my damage?

[Æ]

My lvl 17 fighter cannot beat those NPC's, you make it sound so easy "just drink potions" give me a break, I couldn't drink potions enough to stave off magic damage from a mage, especially if he has quicken spell or auto quicken

besides, who has time to experiment with different weapons when two Isaac's will kill me in two rounds... that gives me a chance to get off 8 attacks, and with improved invis on the mage, most will miss... and i'm really sick of being told to switch weapons... I didn't spend all those feats on my specialized weapon (rapier) so i could swing a big stupid two handed sword or something at 4 less AB.....

Get real, you people are all just trying to justify running around slaughtering everyone with overpowered mages and also leveling faster than everyone else because nothing resists your damage.

The point of the Beta test is to TEST and BALANCE the mod, we're not even playing yet people... stop trying to get your uber character and let's help the developers and DM's creat a well balanced uber world

[dond]

My lvl 17 fighter cannot beat those NPC's, you make it sound so easy "just drink potions" give me a break, I couldn't drink potions enough to stave off magic damage from a mage, especially if he has quicken spell or auto quicken

besides, who has time to experiment with different weapons when two Isaac's will kill me in two rounds... that gives me a chance to get off 8 attacks, and with improved invis on the mage, most will miss... and i'm really sick of being told to switch weapons... I didn't spend all those feats on my specialized weapon (rapier) so i could swing a big stupid two handed sword or something at 4 less AB.....

Get real, you people are all just trying to justify running around slaughtering everyone with overpowered mages and also leveling faster than everyone else because nothing resists your damage.

The point of the Beta test is to TEST and BALANCE the mod, we're not even playing yet people... stop trying to get your uber character and let's help the developers and DM's creat a well balanced uber world

wtf, you're the clueless one.

i have seen a fighter do that, that's why i say so. they can, i went there to see if it was camped, it was, stood there and watched as the fighter killed them all (lol).

if you're sick of switching weapons, then SoL on you. you can't expect to beat everything in the game with a rapier. give me a break.


as for leveling faster, i sure hope you're kidding.
as a lowbie mage in MA, it was hell from 1-14. you'd die so often (and summons only last so long, you better get ready to run back to garagoth when that bugger disappers). when you hit lvl 6 or so, good luck getting thru the formians SR (that's the MA zone for 5-15 or so).

you're just looking for a cheap way out. it's not gonna happen.
get use to getting prepared. get used to switching gear based on what's ahead. get used to getting a party because you need a cleric to rez you when [censored] hits the fan.

this isn't ns3 where you have every immune possible on a 1 set of gear.

as far as owning anything..........uh no? sure, i can kill a couple people here and there, but a monk, a gith or drow fighter, that brushes off ALL my spells, im dead as if im lvl 1 again and saw that first dire rat criticalling me :/

as far as beta testing...........have you played a god damn mage yet?
no? then get to it.
i have a fighter already playing thru at lvl 6 or so, much much easier than the time i had with my mage. (nothing like turning on expertise on a mob with +5 cr higher than you, and downing it while chugging heals lol)

[Nemesis Revised]

there's nothing really wrong with mages or non-mages. I noticed that we compare them for individual purposes. I suggest the best way to discover each other's advantages is to party up. Don't go solo, there are some areas that really need partying up. For example, i'm a level 12 mage and I party up with a level 16 monk, we both go to the gnoll fortress and kill the boss. How? Well, the monk can't do this on his own, nor can I, coz there was just too many enemies. So we both needed each other. I keep casting buffs, haste, and improved invis on him (for concealment) so that we would be able to survive the gnoll place. We shouldn't put mages and non-mages on conflicting sides. I agree with alexia that one class can kill the other in some ways other classes can't. Best way however is not to go solo; because there won't be anyone to cover for our weaknesses. So party up so that we'd get someone to cover our weaknesses and we cover theirs.

[JesterOI]

Problem solved right here (if it's possible):

Take the time limits on trade skills, i.e. you have to wait 4 hours to get to journeyman, and toss those on to spell slots.

So, when you use a spell, a counter is started on that spell slot, and once the counter reaches a certain amount of time, whatever spell is in that slot becomes available (in the case of wizards, clerics, druids, rangers, and pally's, if no spell is picked, the slot is wasted for another recharge cycle).
As to the amount of time it takes for a spell slot to "recharge", I think the devs will have the best idea on how long that should be.
Also, set the counter time to stem from the GAME time that the spell was cast, so that you can't cheat by relogging.

This allows mages to have to pace themselves like they should technically have to, but will let them not have to go dry for much time if they play it right.

Some concessions to ease this for mages could be:

Lowering the cost of scribing. As to how much it should be lowered, I again believe the devs will have the best idea.

Return spells durations to their original settings.


Some of the best things about the above "recharge" time for spell slots would be that the devs could tailor this to specific classes, factions, alignments, spell lvl (more time for higher lvl spells), skill level (spellcraft), PC lvl, or even the area that the PC spends their spells, to get the perfect balance in, and add a new and possibly enjoyable element to playing spellcasters while at the same time adding some balance to them.

BOOYA!!! SLAMDUNK MOFO'S!!!

[JesterOI]

Also, I totally agree there shoudn't be any do-it-all weapons and that teamwork should be chosen over solo'ing (but not to the point of impossible solo'ing, just difficult solo'ing).

[xdarkness13]

[quote="EvilIguana966"]
I stand by my suggestions above. Only heavy armor, which is I think 40-50% spell failure should get the resists. That's plate (8 AC) , half plate (7 AC), and I think Splint Mail. 45% Arcane spell failure is a helluva price to pay for that extra protection.
[/quote]

you are forgetting dex fighters who don't usually wear heavy armor...

[powerferret]

This is why I play as a ranger. summons, animal companion, a few minor buffs, ranged wepons, improved 2 weapon fighting for twice the ammount of attacks per round, get the wepon finesse and fight off your dex, high reflex save so most spells almost always do half damage....I tell ya, this is the life.

[JesterOI]

bump

Problem solved right here (if it's possible):

Take the time limits on trade skills, i.e. you have to wait 4 hours to get to journeyman, and toss those on to spell slots.

So, when you use a spell, a counter is started on that spell slot, and once the counter reaches a certain amount of time, whatever spell is in that slot becomes available (in the case of wizards, clerics, druids, rangers, and pally's, if no spell is picked, the slot is wasted for another recharge cycle).
As to the amount of time it takes for a spell slot to "recharge", I think the devs will have the best idea on how long that should be.
Also, set the counter time to stem from the GAME time that the spell was cast, so that you can't cheat by relogging.

This allows mages to have to pace themselves like they should technically have to, but will let them not have to go dry for much time if they play it right.

Some concessions to ease this for mages could be:

Lowering the cost of scribing. As to how much it should be lowered, I again believe the devs will have the best idea.

Return spells durations to their original settings.


Some of the best things about the above "recharge" time for spell slots would be that the devs could tailor this to specific classes, factions, alignments, spell lvl (more time for higher lvl spells), skill level (spellcraft), PC lvl, or even the area that the PC spends their spells, to get the perfect balance in, and add a new and possibly enjoyable element to playing spellcasters while at the same time adding some balance to them.

BOOYA!!! SLAMDUNK MOFO'S!!!