Pallys and black devils

Post by **Amoenotep** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:31 am

once per rest? my divine might/shield go off my turn undead attempts...i get like 20 total.

Alkapwn · Post by **Alkapwn** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:23 am

sldsmkd wrote:
Amoenotep wrote:wow..divine wrath a bust? mine does like +20 divine damage....that doesn't sound like a bust to me.
It's duration is too short and is only useable once per rest. But it does add a lot more than additional damage

I beleive you are thinking of Smite

sldsmkd · Post by **sldsmkd** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:48 am

no, divine wrath - the CoT once per day special. that was what Amoen was talking about i think, and was certainly what the guy who said it was a bust was talking about.

its +5ab, +5sv and +5 something else for 1 round (or turn, whichever is longer).

might and shield are keyed to turn undead and have plenty of uses and last a reasonable amount of time with enough cha.

Post by **Amoenotep** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:41 am

oh that...yeah, its once/day but i never use it anyway.

Post by **Binkyuk** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:05 pm

Unless it's been changed (it was a while ago when i built a CoT) Divine Wrath gives +5 to AB, damage and saves for CHA mod rounds once per day at 10 CoT levels. If the DR was better scaled it might be useful, but as it is it's not great.

Anyone feeling like disagreeing please look up Divine Might and Divine Wrath in your dictionary first or I will beat you.

sldsmkd · Post by **sldsmkd** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:15 pm

Amoenotep wrote:oh that...yeah, its once/day but i never use it anyway.

hence why he said it was a bust

I use it sometimes, it adds attack and damage for a limited time - but the duration really needs to be upped for it to be proper useful. The additional saves could care less about, mine are pretty astronomical anyway.

The big fat weak spot I see in Paladins is spell resistance.

sldsmkd · Post by **sldsmkd** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:27 pm

watchwood wrote:More smite charges, better turning (if you actually use it), longer lasting spells that are harder to disspell in PvP, and the mythical pure class bonuses.

Extra Smiting is a feat you can take early on when non of the other prereqs are met - and it's well worth taking unlike Extra Turning (useless*). Turning itself is useless on a Paladin, if you want to turn make a cleric. 26 levels of Paladin are enough to make your buffs undispellable except by disjunction.

binky wrote:CoT is added to pally for smiting purposes.
surely no one in the world uses turning. it only works reliably on mobs of lower level than you, and most PCs fight creatures at least 1 or 2 levels higher than them, and much higher than that in a party.

when you add in paladin epic bonus feats, taking 10 levels of CoT actually only gives you an extra 2 feats by level 40. with divine wrath generally a bust this means you sacrifice coming pure class benefits (unless they're allowed with CoT, which might be the case given what was done with Divine Might), dispel resist and buff duration for 2 feats and +5 to saves (which will already be pretty awesome). not such a great bargain really.

CoT is added for good synergy with Paladin, fast tracked epic smitings, feat bonuses and spot. The extra saves cement the already outstanding saves of the Paladin. The clicky Divine Wrath is useless, mainly because it's one use per rest and really really short duration.

Basically, unless you pure class then 26 paladin is enough and CoT fills out at least 10 of those levels very nicely.

I'm quite interested in trying out a Bard / CoT actually, think that would be interesting.

*i'd like to see turn undead chancged at least on Paladin based chars to be an AE direct damage spell keyed to level*cha

sldsmkd · Post by **sldsmkd** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:37 pm

Binkyuk wrote:Unless it's been changed (it was a while ago when i built a CoT) Divine Wrath gives +5 to AB, damage and saves for CHA mod rounds once per day at 10 CoT levels. If the DR was better scaled it might be useful, but as it is it's not great.

Anyone feeling like disagreeing please look up Divine Might and Divine Wrath in your dictionary first or I will beat you.

it only lasts 1 turn i think, certainly less than shield / might do - as a once per day i think the duration should be upped.

Post by **Amoenotep** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:38 pm

i don't use the wrath because its not needed for my build. with shield and might i do massive damage with a good boost to ac. i get lots of them so i don't have to rest and i can keep casting in battle. with the gargantuan saves a pally/cot can collect the only thing that would have completed the build better was rogue or monk for evasion...SR wouldn't even be needed.

it is a hunter of evil and takes great pains to make sure they die fast....which it delivers if your unfortunate enough to be evil.

sldsmkd · Post by **sldsmkd** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:48 pm

Amoenotep wrote:i don't use the wrath because its not needed for my build. with shield and might i do massive damage with a good boost to ac. i get lots of them so i don't have to rest and i can keep casting in battle. with the gargantuan saves a pally/cot can collect the only thing that would have completed the build better was rogue or monk for evasion...SR wouldn't even be needed.

it is a hunter of evil and takes great pains to make sure they die fast....which it delivers if your unfortunate enough to be evil.

I rarely use wrath either on my 30 pal/cot - its nice and a good boost on boss fights, but the whole click might/shield/wrath hit twice mights fading cycle doesn't really allow for it.

We'll have to compare notes, on my third revision and think i've really got the balance right

Post by **Sparky** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:52 pm

If you'd read Divine Wrath's description, the duration in rounds is your Cha Modifier, meaning its duration is exactly the same as Divine Might/Shield.

Being limited to one use a day certaintly limits its use, generally as a pre meditated fight opener combined with other short term buffs. If you are able to use Divine Wrath in concert with other Divine Feats, and other Pally spells, the combination is quite devestating for the short duration. Some day it will probably be given more love (We've got lots of ideas in waiting fo rmany classes), but fixing prestige classes is rather low on the priorities list.

sldsmkd · Post by **sldsmkd** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:56 pm

Sparky wrote:If you'd read Divine Wrath's description, the duration in rounds is your Cha Modifier, meaning its duration is exactly the same as Divine Might/Shield.

Being limited to one use a day certaintly limits its use, generally as a pre meditated fight opener combined with other short term buffs. If you are able to use Divine Wrath in concert with other Divine Feats, and other Pally spells, the combination is quite devestating for the short duration. Some day it will probably be given more love (We've got lots of ideas in waiting fo rmany classes), but fixing prestige classes is rather low on the priorities list.

Description or not, it doesn't last the same duration

Not overly bothered as it isn't the reason I have CoT in the build, just some spice.