Amount of PK-ing tolerated?

[Wolfarus]

right now the biggest prob people have with being Pk'd is the exp/gold/item loss, which will be fixed. But there's still the element of "i just spent the past 10-15 mins going from Area A (in my turf) to EXPLORE in area B (in their turf). And gee, this mage appears out of no where and kills me with one attack w/o saying a word. "

Even when the loss bugs are fixed, people are going to be discouraged from exploring all the areas the servers have to offer if they have to worry about the past 1/4 hour of their game time being undone by some griefing troll. I have no prob with the PvP aspect of our new community, as said in other posts, its gonna be the "final" level of entertainment when you're explored everything over and over again, and lvl'd up into high levles. But please have some decency and respect for your fellow community members when you want to fight somebody else.

Here's some basic rules i think we can all (or most of us anyhoo lol) agree on AND need to be enforced to promote the growth and exchange of all 4 servers and all the factions :

1. Dont run in and kill somebody who's already engaging a monster they are obviously moderately-severely challenged with. Wait for them to heal/rest up first. Then challenge them to a duel.

2. Dont attack somebody just because they show up as hostile. They are most likely just exploring, same as you.

3. Keep in mind that you CANT control summons as easily as your own actions. If somebody kills your familiar/summons, no biggie. If they then come after you, then its all fair in war.

Basicly, dont attack unless attacked first OR its a mutualy agree'd apon duel. Just today, 2 people attacked me and a party i was leading to a new area i found, they ended up dead. I explained to them i wouldnt have had a prob with them if they would have left me and my guys alone. we agree'd and went our seperate ways.

However, in fairness to the Dm's, how are they going to impliment an effective Pk balance policy? Every time somebody is Pk'd, they could run to the dm and cry wolf. The only way i can see the dm's taking control of the pk situation is if they maintained a sort of "Dm's watch list". They get enough complaints about a certain individual and his behavior, then they can watch for him and see if action is justified.

My 2 cents

[Firkraag]

IHMO I agree with DD if you are with in 3 lvl by all means Have at it. A high lvl picking on any low lvl player is just someone with a bully complex.

Everything Paddy, and Wolfarus has said is what I was going to say so I will not repeat.

And I do agree with the faction idea but a lawless world is a world we do not want to live in. We are explores by nature and exploring the realm is what we do. To get killed for exploring and have people say stay out of my realm you are way off. NS4 is the realm, each server has a main City, which like in real life or in fanticy world if I invade your city by all means PK at will. But to say you own all the surrounding area and "get off my Server" is not the to way play or live.

And I want to apolgize to everyone for complaining in the shout channel. It will not happen again.

On a pos. note NS4 is a fun MOD and it has alot to offer. Good work Everyone..

[AndrewCarr]

See, to me if the faction is hostile, then pk away so long as you're not slaughtering noobs(so no effortless people, unless you curse them to get them to go away.) and if they're easy, i'd say let them have a friend or two. Basic rules. So one idea i like is to add incentives to pvp. If you can get 100xp from killing a challenging lvl person, but lose 100 by killing an easy, and 200+ for an effortless depending on their lvl(changing finally to a % gold loss at lvl40 as then xp is worthless) then we'll see more people grouping up against high lvls, and against others their level. It'll also discourage attacking newbies as xp atm is very important, at least to me, as it's so useful, and later a medium sized gold % should definately hurt high players a lot. Say a 10-15% when they're lvl 40.

But aside from this, i in no way wish to have "optional" pvp as then it becomes retarded. Also will lead to plenty of instances of "but i didn't want to REALLY pvp, was just pretending..." and crap like that. Therefore, i see more problems arising that way than being solved.

[Murkill]

I believe the controling PvP is really hard thing to accomplish, and trying to look at what the challenge rating of player is, isn't one of the first things that crosses your mind when that player is attacking you.

I don't have any better solution than what people have already suggested but,

I'll tell one of my expiriences I had which i think is a very smart and mature way and noone gets apset.

I was in the Forgotten Mines killing some orcs trying to level, when I saw a dwarf who was hostile (don't remeber the characters name) so my first reaction, and because of "force of habbit" was to attack the guy.

Turns out that I lost the fight and was knocked out (dead) so what he did which was very mature and noble of him, was to heal me and bring me back to life, so i thanked him and congratualted him, we both said our goodbyes and went off out own seperate ways.

Now I think this is a way were both side can be satisfied with the result, and there can be no hard feelings.

The only problem I see with this is that you can't control how much damage you do so you might end up killing the guy off and needing a rez to bring him back, and not that many poeple have that yet. Just my opinion.

[Thor of Clan Freakery]

I believe the controling PvP is really hard thing to accomplish, and trying to look at what the challenge rating of player is, isn't one of the first things that crosses your mind when that player is attacking you.

I don't have any better solution than what people have already suggested but,

I'll tell one of my expiriences I had which i think is a very smart and mature way and noone gets apset.

I was in the Forgotten Mines killing some orcs trying to level, when I saw a dwarf who was hostile (don't remeber the characters name) so my first reaction, and because of "force of habbit" was to attack the guy.

Turns out that I lost the fight and was knocked out (dead) so what he did which was very mature and noble of him, was to heal me and bring me back to life, so i thanked him and congratualted him, we both said our goodbyes and went off out own seperate ways.

Now I think this is a way were both side can be satisfied with the result, and there can be no hard feelings.

The only problem I see with this is that you can't control how much damage you do so you might end up killing the guy off and needing a rez to bring him back, and not that many poeple have that yet. Just my opinion.

Hehehe your welcome I was lost in your mines, n saw you running around, thinking to myself, please dont let this guy attack me, i really hate to kill lower lvls than me, its never any fun So you attacked, i defended, and my weak dwarven heart made me come back to heal you. Hope you made it out ok.

[Genin Far]

Wolpharus, Here Here.

I also agree that stronger guards (read: one that can on take a lvl 18 at least) in the NEWBIE areas would probably stop a great portion of the infancy.

Its really simple, explorers at level 8 or below SHOULD fear going into another server shard, since we all Choose our sides at the beginning of the game. I know its not beyond any of you to think of a level 1 indian scout in the 1700s being scared out of their unenlightened heads about going outside of the Fort they lived their entier adult lives in (if they were bored they studied, which is one of the reasons that they lived as long as they did considering their times and lack of technology).

Neutral is Avendale so if you want to palaver go there, neutral is not the LA Crossroads so only go there when your ready, newbie areas are there for grinding, so grind. Of course a fast way to Avendale for all would be nice (MA have quite a haul through dangerous ground but again part of the world and must be dealt with). But pacts and alliances can be made between even the most ardent factional opponents, if they get the chance to actually meet in a non violent forum.

Its all in fun, but remember factional warfare is just that, WARfare, and not to be taken lightly.

In Closing, Police yourselves, don't whine about losing all your stuff (it happens...its beta), and if someone is PISSING YOU OFF!!!!! then get off your fat [censored] and play frisbee or something for a while, its only a game.

Obligatory 2 cents line lol


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Peace and war are separated by as fine a thread as exists, the question is wheter or not you want to start swinging something sharp.

[sep caldessian]

I dont think players should be automatically penalized by xp/gold for killing lower levels, as that could lead to exploits where lower levels initiate combat and lose on purpose to drain the xp and gold from a higher level.

[Alexiagold]

I dont think players should be automatically penalized by xp/gold for killing lower levels, as that could lead to exploits where lower levels initiate combat and lose on purpose to drain the xp and gold from a higher level.

Or as has been my experience, would follow you around looting your stuff and wating to attack you when you are weak. I've killed many many effortless players because they did just this. As a mage, once I'm out of spells and need to rest or I won't stand a chance against an effortless fighter. So I kill them if they follow me, or are leveling in the area I intend to rest often in. I usually ask them to leave or go away 1st, but most people either attack, [censored] or otherwise refuse to comply. Usually calling me a bully, insults and such. And for those of you who died in the initial few days, I was playing acording to the rules, kill all hostile faction members. Since then the rules have changed. Let it go.

[Phaeton]

Server PK messages on the Shout Channel would be helpful in tracking the number of PKs and also who is doing the PKing.

Another thing that would be very helpful would be if the Server PK messages listed each character's levels and the location of the PK. That way, everyone will know if its a fair fight in PK territory or someone who is 10 levels higher PKing someone in Avendell.

Personally, I've seen how PK can be a form of entertainment when done properly and a grievance if its not done properly.

Within the past week, I've been PK'd with my 5th level character by someone who was AT LEAST 10 levels higher in Avendell. Not a word spoken, just standing outside of the shops waiting for my other guildmembers to be done with their shopping, then boom....-11 HP and a nice little server message in the combat log saying who killed me. Avendell, neutral territory, but I was sent back to my home faction WITH an XP hit and gold penalty.

On the other side of the spectrum, myself and another member went into NC merely to hunt and to explore, when an NC member comes by with his summon. The summon starts attacking us, but he doesn't command it to stop so we attack it and kill it. Seeing that the NC member was showing as challenging to me (my partner was 4th level at the time) and was also just standing there watching his summon attack us, we went after the master. We followed the master into a few areas where we he brought re-inforcements (2-3 others) in. They were all around 4-5 level so we had a little battle. We defeated them once, they said "good job" in tells, they came back again. We defeated them again, they said "good job" in tells, they came back again this time with their heavy hitter, a 6th level druid with some nice summons and spells. We were defeated. In the end, it was very fun and entertaining and after we were laying there dead (for all you RP fans out there, close your eyes), we were talking with them and everyone thought it was good clean fun for the whole family. We said nice job to each other and then parted ways.

I do believe PK can be fun if the griefers are policed. If they can't be, then I would think that a number of new players will leave when they get PKd by someone who is 10 levels higher than them. Not a good 1st impression.

I also agree with Paddy that some sort of listing of known griefers should be made public followed by a CD-Key banning for repeat offenders.

[Psycho Dordt]

If you get near my factions lvling area, i dont care whether your lvl 2 or lvl 21 i will attach you and if I get my way you die.

I'f i'm killing town guards for XP i wont attack somone who runs by if you attack me you die if i can kill you.

If i run past you in your faction area, i will attack you, after all what is the point in factions at war if i let you go away cuzz your register as easy..........

to all the carebears, you all knew that PvP was a large part of NS4 when you read the forums (what you do if you read this), or when you joined a faction, they are obviously at war. If you dont like PvP go to Trinity, there ppl get Banned if they PvP outside of the arena

[garrykasparov]

I feel that the current rules regarding PvP are a bit vague. I realize that this is of course still Beta, but you may want to come up with a more concrete set of rules later on to avoid griefing and general unhappiness.

Having the Avendell/Effy rules is nice, but there are still some issues at hand.

Ex: What if an effy is beating the crap out of other people in your faction? Are you permitted to attack or should you just watch as they die?

[Souldin]

I think that the PvP should be taken literally. As in that you have full permission to attack whom ever you want to.... obviously there are consiquences such as people's hate toward you but no such harsh DM "godlike abilities" used on you if you pk another player. And obviously, don't grieve others..... hmmm I think that unless this gets to be a really big problem that the DMs are going to leave it up to the players to take care of their own problems. I really like this idea, so that there isnt an "Almighty DM" keeping you from having full freedom.

Although the DMs still ARE Almighty

remember this is just what i have come up with from the information that i have been seing from the DMs and higher powers.

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On another note, what's this i hear about death penalty being taken away? I like the sound of that.

[Karma]

This is the biggest issue on EVERY server vault I ever played on. I will say this and I'm done with this topic...this is NOT going to change, the rules were here before most every player and will be here until you leave or the server is shut down.

[Gil-Este]

You guys are all thinking about some kind of a modern world where the weak are supposed to be protected, and you get to choose when to take the training wheels off. This is a world of warfare and warlords, feudal lords, bitter rivalries, and other such cliches. The weak have no rights save those they can safeguard, the strong have no limits but their own strength. Now imagine for just a minute that you and a few of your friends, just plain ordinary people, are walking around the middle of a war zone. Would the soldiers of either side have some kind of an obligation to hold their fire, let you walk through their lines, and wave you on your merry way? Of course not. Does that mean they have to launch grenades at you and riddle your already incinerated corpses with bullets? Of course not. But you should expect no less.

[DrakhanValane]

Maybe I'm out of touch... what's an "effy"? Short for effigy?