interesting...

-BannyD- · Post by **-BannyD-** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:14 pm

ehh, i wouldnt give a pure monk that huge a benefit. the only thing they lack is AB. i think it would be much more difficult to make a melee type pure but hey...i believe they did say pure class bonuses are on their way or at least will come 'soon'

Post by **Sparky** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:06 pm

Indeed, we already beat you to the punch ATI. As BannyD says, we are working on Pure Class Bonuses as our Devs can get on them, and our first class to receive bonuses is coming close to completion.

ATI · Post by **ATI** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:38 pm

Awesome that is great. Seems my argument is over

Death Dealer1 · Post by **Death Dealer1** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:32 am

PM's are unstoppable..nice the way they are and really shouldn't be altered. i can build chars to kill PM's so can anyone else if they choose to.

the first pure class to get a boost should be ranger or fighter...other than that, maybe harper scout.

Elagneros · Post by **Elagneros** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:10 am

I also agree it should be ranger. A pure ranger has very little going for it, the epic ranger gets Bane of Enemies, but the extra 2d6 damage gets swallowed up in epic levels with 15/- and 20/- resistance. It's also a class that pretty much requires light or no armor for the perks to work, but suffers from a low AC from low base AC on light on that armor, and the fact that they don't get Tumble as a class skill and only get half the AC bonus there is going all pure. Rangers are best at either dual-wielding or ranged attacing, and neither is very strong here. Ranger is great for stealth, but when people crack out their full True Seeing summons, then the ranger starts to have a very bad day. To make a ranger at all competitive, you need to combine it with something else, and IMO, Bane of Enemies really isn't good for the ranger, he might as well only go 9 levels for the dual wielding bonuses, and use it to boost a different class.

Post by **Binkyuk** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:24 am

Main problem with ranger is the same as bard - that they're required to wear light armour but lack Uncanny Dodge (even worse for bard when they go flat foot to combat cast). this one class feat makes a *huge* difference, in fact i pretty much never consider a dex build without it.

MLoki · Post by **MLoki** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:59 am

They fixed most of these problems with rangers in 3.5 so it means that he might be better in NS5 but he could deffinatly stand some bonuses here. Evasion and HiPS and a couple of the added bonuses they got in 3.5 so perhaps something along those lines for the pure ranger might not make him so bad.

MLoki

CrazyJ · Post by **CrazyJ** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:02 pm

Maybe Sneak Attack at 15, 25, and 35 or 40? Fits in with the "stealthy guardian of the woods" type thing.

Revising the traps system to require fewer skill points could be helpful too. Maybe have the "create traps" skill work off of "set traps."

Elagneros · Post by **Elagneros** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:24 pm

Another problem is that the epic ranger can't take epic dodge on his own, since he doesn't get Improved Evasion or Defensive Roll, and he'll never get enough ranks in Tumble. And epic dodge is important for dexers to make up for the low AC.

solates · Post by **solates** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:33 pm

umm

bard...

no real changes i can think of pure wise...

maybe an alteration so they could support better.

their curse song at pure 40 is actually nasty combined with bard song.

we discussed this at length in ns3---a pure bards net gain is amazing.

+5 ab +5ac(dodge) and capped out skill boosts.
-5ab -5ac

so looking at the net gains(+5 ab+ -5ac =+10 ab) and +10 ac.

unfortunatly a good bard build requires int cha and dex.

maybe a celestial or infernal gift @ 40 bard that makes their damage either holy or unholy.

Solates

Post by **DeputyDog** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:35 pm

How about giving them more offense instead of defense.
Blinding speed bonus feat maybe?

No epic dodge though. leave that for rogues

CrazyJ · Post by **CrazyJ** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:47 pm

For Bard or for Rangers?

How about altering Magic Fang so that it gives the Ranger a way to boost his own weapon? Bladethirst only works for slashing, and half the dexer weapons are pierce or bludge. Magic Fang is currently unusable, and it can be set so that it scales per ranger levels... Bonus of 1 at 10, 2 at 20, 2d6 at 25, and on climbing to 40.

P. Fricebottle · Post by **P. Fricebottle** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:03 pm

Elagneros wrote:dexers to make up for the low AC.

Don't know what you're talking about, dex'ers can get some crazy good AC. The only thing they're relly missing out on is the +8 from Full Plate (hehe that rhymed), which they make up for with Tumble and Dex Armor Bonus. More than often they have higher AC then others.

Post by **Umpa** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:27 pm

Being able to summon any monster greater then your own level is overbalancing in the extreme. If the mob isn't without 5 levels of the character it should be brought to that level.

Level 30's with 20level higher pets is a bit extreme. The only way to withstand such a mob is using a very High AC character which ussually = fighter, which can not crit the very high AC PM. Its overbalancing compared to most other classes, and whats available.

If I had a level 10 character with a level 30 Lion Pet, what would be good with that?

ATI · Post by **ATI** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:52 pm

Rangers seriously need some tweaking. Something like the archery icon from NS3 would be nice, get more damage the more levels you get, starting from lvl 1. So a lvl 40 ranger could get AB bonuses as well as attack damage bonuses. (while still remaining very weak in H2H combat).

From what I see, Ranger is only good for a couple levels, go to cleric, use zen archery instead, and then you have a ranger with heavy armor, and a crazily high AB and AC (since dex is moved out of the equation).

for bards...lordI have no idea, maybe increasing the effects of their cursed song or giving pure bards something akin to the songs from the Epic Handbook for DnD. Perhaps doing something that invokes a true name.

Harper scout...hehehehe man thats just a wasted PrC