Rant: NS4
I wouldn't say out of control, it's a valid concern.
What does an RP player do when faced with a character that's power-gamed to the gills and played by someone that will log out if things aren't going his way? We'll think of something for this case that we can all live with...
Best we can do for now is be aware of the concern--we have a lot of bug squishing to take care of in the immediate future to make sure that everyone can play on a server that stays up and plays with a minimum of latency.
(It's tough to bad mouth Avlis too--they've done a staggering amount of great stuff for the NWN community.)
What does an RP player do when faced with a character that's power-gamed to the gills and played by someone that will log out if things aren't going his way? We'll think of something for this case that we can all live with...
Best we can do for now is be aware of the concern--we have a lot of bug squishing to take care of in the immediate future to make sure that everyone can play on a server that stays up and plays with a minimum of latency.
(It's tough to bad mouth Avlis too--they've done a staggering amount of great stuff for the NWN community.)
While we are for freeform gaming, attitudes such as this are disenheartening to say the least.QuickLightning wrote:So far today I've heard people asking where the fastest places to level are, what bindstones are close to easy xp and other "speed" issues.
Tep wrote:I login and there's a dwarf to kill. You can't ask for much more than that.
Alkapwn wrote:NC has the most amazing melee build there is. Its a friggin unstopable juggernaut of pain.
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Gai Daikoji
- Noob
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Ive gotta say that i agree with Gil and others when we are talking about this conflict, we arent going to convince either side of dramatically changing their views, but anyways:
Gil is right, i was in that barfight session and it was probably the most fun ive had playing PnP dnd, but thats something that could never happen on a server mainly because it lacks the flexibily for that kind of action. If i walk into a bar on NS4 i have specific players i can talk to, and only some of them i can engage in conversation.
In PnP on the other hand i can decide to jump on the bar and start a bar fight with my bardsong, the havoc of regular dnd is changed into a more predictable form that, while not eliminating roleplaying, turns it into something that has to be kept in a system of numbers and rules moreso than PnP ever could, Computers just arent advanced enough to handle alot of the commands i would like to type, such as do a dance to confuse the party or use disguse to make my halfling bard appear like an eight year old, run around town square screaming "I want my mommy" just for the fun of it.
Though i love to roleplay, you can do both, rp and pg, at the same time. You can build an uber character with uber gear and still yell Hark! Okies most foul attack yon novice! Will no one assist me in stoping them?
Why the RP PG clash? F0r5007h, I know not.
Edit: Shouting for fast leveling and quick xp are neither a pg nor rp trait, its a lazy player trait.
Gil is right, i was in that barfight session and it was probably the most fun ive had playing PnP dnd, but thats something that could never happen on a server mainly because it lacks the flexibily for that kind of action. If i walk into a bar on NS4 i have specific players i can talk to, and only some of them i can engage in conversation.
In PnP on the other hand i can decide to jump on the bar and start a bar fight with my bardsong, the havoc of regular dnd is changed into a more predictable form that, while not eliminating roleplaying, turns it into something that has to be kept in a system of numbers and rules moreso than PnP ever could, Computers just arent advanced enough to handle alot of the commands i would like to type, such as do a dance to confuse the party or use disguse to make my halfling bard appear like an eight year old, run around town square screaming "I want my mommy" just for the fun of it.
Though i love to roleplay, you can do both, rp and pg, at the same time. You can build an uber character with uber gear and still yell Hark! Okies most foul attack yon novice! Will no one assist me in stoping them?
Why the RP PG clash? F0r5007h, I know not.
Edit: Shouting for fast leveling and quick xp are neither a pg nor rp trait, its a lazy player trait.
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xstatk_tzar
- Noob
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- Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 11:13 pm
- Location: New Zealand
Just my thought.....
"To r/p...or not to r/p.....that is the question" I shall be r/playing every and all characters i make at NS4. I will strive to live with all in my community [LA]. I do not have a *Power gamers* mind to build *1337 characters and i will probably die many times at the hands of 1337's. But know this....I have friends....many many friends and they love nothing more than to buiild *1337 chars...whilst i may not have the satisfaction of rendering the final blow.......revenge shall be mine.....and i do so love my cold dishes!
Quicklightning, I say now that all members of †GoN† are your ally. "Twas i that stood with you to oust that foolish Magi [name deleted] who dared enter our province with evil intent, and i shall be honoured to stand with you, shoulder to shoulder as we take the battle to all those of like mind as that foolish Magi. Come friend, take up your bow and join with us to keep our fair city free from all who intend evil.
Did i lay that on a little too thick? A little too over the top?....oh well nevermind. There is room for all and while i do also get a little tired with some of the *speak from people on shout channel, i have faith that eventually it will be policed properly by both the DMs' and the community itself.
And to all those who, [by content and inferrence of their written word] think that r/players will *have to adjust or die out*, know that Delelorfith Lore Keeper of -=†GoN†=-, shall return time and time again to do battle, Lore Keeper she may be.......but there is power also in Lore. Have a care....I may just surprise you!
PS: err....we're still in *beta right? Come on one and all....its a game and i for one will endeavour to find my own sense of fun within the game.
Just my thoughts......
Quicklightning, I say now that all members of †GoN† are your ally. "Twas i that stood with you to oust that foolish Magi [name deleted] who dared enter our province with evil intent, and i shall be honoured to stand with you, shoulder to shoulder as we take the battle to all those of like mind as that foolish Magi. Come friend, take up your bow and join with us to keep our fair city free from all who intend evil.
Did i lay that on a little too thick? A little too over the top?....oh well nevermind. There is room for all and while i do also get a little tired with some of the *speak from people on shout channel, i have faith that eventually it will be policed properly by both the DMs' and the community itself.
And to all those who, [by content and inferrence of their written word] think that r/players will *have to adjust or die out*, know that Delelorfith Lore Keeper of -=†GoN†=-, shall return time and time again to do battle, Lore Keeper she may be.......but there is power also in Lore. Have a care....I may just surprise you!
PS: err....we're still in *beta right? Come on one and all....its a game and i for one will endeavour to find my own sense of fun within the game.
Just my thoughts......
"...may you bask in glorious sunlight ever in your travels and, as you take pause and glance towards the heavens...may that passing seagull crap in yer eye!"
as always, your servant Delelorfith.
as always, your servant Delelorfith.
why not get rid of shout totally?
i doubt anyone is able to shout hard enough for everyone to hear, so how is that roleplaying, plus no tells too unless they're 1 feet away from you, shouldnt have a player list and everyone should have to be logged in 24/7 since how is sometimes simply logging off realistic?
oh and item level restrictions, if you can buy a weapon, how is it roleplaying that you cant use it
anyway going a bit overboard here, just wish those wanting to roleplay could be a bit more tolerant.
i doubt anyone is able to shout hard enough for everyone to hear, so how is that roleplaying, plus no tells too unless they're 1 feet away from you, shouldnt have a player list and everyone should have to be logged in 24/7 since how is sometimes simply logging off realistic?
oh and item level restrictions, if you can buy a weapon, how is it roleplaying that you cant use it
anyway going a bit overboard here, just wish those wanting to roleplay could be a bit more tolerant.
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Sir Sean
- Dungeon Master
- Posts: 81
- Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 9:42 pm
- Location: Somewhere between Chicago and Memphis
I can come up with an rp justification for item level restrictions:
All magic in Aetheria (whether anyone knows it or not) is tied to the Rifts. Characters, having come through them, are also tied to the Rifts. Gear of Steel-quality or better is created using a process which is magical in nature (yes, I know that's not the case in real life, this is a game), and unless your connection to the Rift is strong enough, you can't access the powers of that particular gear. In fact, contact with magic that strong is so painful that you can't wear it and be effective.
Good enough? Keep in mind that this IS fantasy, so don't try to bring the real world into the equation.
Sir Sean, DM Starknight
Oghma, God of Knowledge and Bards
All magic in Aetheria (whether anyone knows it or not) is tied to the Rifts. Characters, having come through them, are also tied to the Rifts. Gear of Steel-quality or better is created using a process which is magical in nature (yes, I know that's not the case in real life, this is a game), and unless your connection to the Rift is strong enough, you can't access the powers of that particular gear. In fact, contact with magic that strong is so painful that you can't wear it and be effective.
Good enough? Keep in mind that this IS fantasy, so don't try to bring the real world into the equation.
Sir Sean, DM Starknight
Oghma, God of Knowledge and Bards
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xstatk_tzar
- Noob
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 11:13 pm
- Location: New Zealand
Nicely put!Sir Sean wrote: Keep in mind that this IS fantasy, so don't try to bring the real world into the equation.
"...may you bask in glorious sunlight ever in your travels and, as you take pause and glance towards the heavens...may that passing seagull crap in yer eye!"
as always, your servant Delelorfith.
as always, your servant Delelorfith.
Actually, the item level justification for me was a bit simpler: It's like trying to use an AK-47 effectively when you're 12 years old, or the classic monkey weilding an atom bomb. More powerful equipment means more required knowledge to be able to use that equipment, otherwise you hurt yourself - We're just preventing you from hurting yourself, that's all :)
I agree with Joran's ILR's. It makes zero sense to have a character wielding a lightsaber, when they have zero clue how to use the thing. There is one problem with that, then I will adress the topic. I noticed that I can craft a nicely tuned bow at Journeyman in The Circle. However, I'm level four and can't use it. My bro and I were a little befuddled because if you can make the item, why can't you use it? (strictly in the craft sense) And that isn't really that annoying, it makes me want to work for my stuff, which is legitimate 
Onto RP and PG (roleplaying and power gaming). For some reason RPing seems to mean an extreme sense of exactly what your character would do if they were really in a world like NS. You use the alignment, your own philosophy and wham, you make a decision, Type on the text line "M'lady, I doth not require thine assistance." and move along. However, this seems like xtreme RPing. Mostly what I think the RP scene should be on NS4 is more of taking into account things that would normally be taken for granted. For example.... OUtside The Circle are pixies, nixies, grix, dryads, nomads, you name it. All of which are neutral to the Circle. A Powergamer says, hey hey! Easy kills for exp (which i am ashamed to admit i have done). The RPer says, wait....they are my allies I can't kill them, and in fact I will protect them.
This simple difference generally means the RPer will have a longer time to reach the same excellence as a PGer, however they can be the same power levels at some point. There is no intrinsic reason why a RPer can't have really good gear and also be a really good RPer.
Furthermore, someone said something about natural selection....First off, don't bastardize Darwin like that, because that isn't natural selection. Second, As I stated above RPers can have just as much of the following as a PGer : Money, Power, STr, Dex, Con, Items, Uber gear, Intelligence(real world and game world), and prestige. SO....the ABSOLUTE conversion of RPers to "having to conform" to Power gaming seems ridiculous.
I think what the players are trying to find is a healthy medium of the two RPing adn PGing. A lot of characters out there wish there was an awesome community that helped each other out, shared the same global struggles (in the game), have the same ideals (differing slightly), and also want to experience the game as if they are new to the world, and they are taking a part of exploring something really excellent.
TO be simple, this is fun and inruiging for anyone. A bunch of my friend share the same view, we're all under 20, and we love this type of gaming, it reminds us of NS3 when it first came out.
To PGers, its perfectly fine if you want to power game, it makes sense, there are always people looking for power (that isn't necessarily a bad thing), and there will always be strong players. But remember, there is always someone stronger, so make friends not enemies.
The purpose of this game is to have fun. No one has fun when a PG storms through your town killing everything that breathes and then bellows on shout "I R0xorz ur BoXorZ! N3Rdz! HEHEHE STFU!" its lame, and its pointless. However, no one likes it when an RPer comes up and demands that others speak in Ye Olde English or demands RPing of other players.
WOrk out the equilibrium and we'll all have fun, everyone needs to respect each other and enjoy the great game the NS4 is
With that im outta here have fun NS4
Onto RP and PG (roleplaying and power gaming). For some reason RPing seems to mean an extreme sense of exactly what your character would do if they were really in a world like NS. You use the alignment, your own philosophy and wham, you make a decision, Type on the text line "M'lady, I doth not require thine assistance." and move along. However, this seems like xtreme RPing. Mostly what I think the RP scene should be on NS4 is more of taking into account things that would normally be taken for granted. For example.... OUtside The Circle are pixies, nixies, grix, dryads, nomads, you name it. All of which are neutral to the Circle. A Powergamer says, hey hey! Easy kills for exp (which i am ashamed to admit i have done). The RPer says, wait....they are my allies I can't kill them, and in fact I will protect them.
This simple difference generally means the RPer will have a longer time to reach the same excellence as a PGer, however they can be the same power levels at some point. There is no intrinsic reason why a RPer can't have really good gear and also be a really good RPer.
Furthermore, someone said something about natural selection....First off, don't bastardize Darwin like that, because that isn't natural selection. Second, As I stated above RPers can have just as much of the following as a PGer : Money, Power, STr, Dex, Con, Items, Uber gear, Intelligence(real world and game world), and prestige. SO....the ABSOLUTE conversion of RPers to "having to conform" to Power gaming seems ridiculous.
I think what the players are trying to find is a healthy medium of the two RPing adn PGing. A lot of characters out there wish there was an awesome community that helped each other out, shared the same global struggles (in the game), have the same ideals (differing slightly), and also want to experience the game as if they are new to the world, and they are taking a part of exploring something really excellent.
TO be simple, this is fun and inruiging for anyone. A bunch of my friend share the same view, we're all under 20, and we love this type of gaming, it reminds us of NS3 when it first came out.
To PGers, its perfectly fine if you want to power game, it makes sense, there are always people looking for power (that isn't necessarily a bad thing), and there will always be strong players. But remember, there is always someone stronger, so make friends not enemies.
The purpose of this game is to have fun. No one has fun when a PG storms through your town killing everything that breathes and then bellows on shout "I R0xorz ur BoXorZ! N3Rdz! HEHEHE STFU!" its lame, and its pointless. However, no one likes it when an RPer comes up and demands that others speak in Ye Olde English or demands RPing of other players.
WOrk out the equilibrium and we'll all have fun, everyone needs to respect each other and enjoy the great game the NS4 is
With that im outta here have fun NS4
I've tried fire, i've tried faith, and i've tried force, all I have left is hope.
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Psycho Dordt
- Looking for group
- Posts: 142
- Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 7:42 am
- Location: Classified (in a coffee shop)
1 i'm a powegamer.
2 if someone RP's to me i return it.
3 sorry but not rerolling your HP in NwN has nothing to do with RP, it has to do with beeing lazy, or not wanting a resilent char.
2 if someone RP's to me i return it.
3 sorry but not rerolling your HP in NwN has nothing to do with RP, it has to do with beeing lazy, or not wanting a resilent char.
I don’t really see much point in intelligence anyway, even at very high levels of intelligence, wizards still don’t realize it would have been smarter to be a sorcerer.
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QuickLightning
- Pk Bait
- Posts: 65
- Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 2:57 pm
*bows beforth Psy* I do remember you RPing to a player back Trinity 2, back when I just liked to powergame the sorc class and not even bother with melee archery or any forms of rp...before I saw the light and was a pure-powergamer. I do trust in your ability to rp...however there are others which I have stated that do not even consider the RPers thoughts and speak 1337 or make comments that are completely OOC and have nothing to do with anyone else in shout...I do not believe should should be completely disabled (like it is in Avlis...blah, my only complaint about that entire place ) call to arms etc are good to have in the shout channel and im sure it will only get better with time.
I will be stalking you soon enough Psycho....watch the wisps in the trees, when you see eyes between the branches, it will already be too late to scream...an arrow coming for your throat will be the last thing you see! There shall be no Ned to protect you
) call to arms etc are good to have in the shout channel and im sure it will only get better with time. I will be stalking you soon enough Psycho....watch the wisps in the trees, when you see eyes between the branches, it will already be too late to scream...an arrow coming for your throat will be the last thing you see! There shall be no Ned to protect you