Updated content woot!

Mental · Post by **Mental** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:43 am

Well Epistaxis, if ur a melee char and have no discipline or hide in the build then u need to rethink it, because in actual fact improved kd is almost useless against a lvl 40 char with full discipline. Unles ur a sd, ur hide should be high enough to escape danger.

lordvan52681 · Post by **lordvan52681** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:04 am

Mental wrote:I agrre with most ppl here as well, this new rule really sucks. This is supposed to be a bit realistic right?? So in reality if u got disarmed ur weapon wouldnt just happen to appear in ur back pack, and what kst auto just mentioned bout gettin ur discipline up is right.

I just hope this changes cause its really a bad idea. Maybe have a vote on it or something??

I can see how you would think this is less realistic Mental, but I believe you are forgetting that with the old script a monk who disarmed had the weapon appear in their backpack.

Post by **Netrom.dk** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:49 am

This is not a "new nerf". This way it was before was actually a bug in the script. It has always been the design for NS4 that a disarmed weapon would drop into the owners inventory. Unfortuneatly this was never bug free untill Zing was let loose on it.

This is also why NPCs don't drop their weapons very often when disarmed

If there is still anyone around from the first weeks, you should remember this as it was brought up multiple times on the forums, and there was a few bug reports on the bug tracker about it.

Death Dealer1 · Post by **Death Dealer1** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:56 am

ooh ooh, i remember...i remember.

MLoki · Post by **MLoki** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:57 pm

I was here before when Disarming NPCs caused problems but their was no indication that this was going to be reimplemented and to completely neuter the feat so that people can simply re-equip the weapon even while still fighting makes the feat worthless. I thought the melee classes were being worked on to make them better and not taking abilities away from them. This just seems like the wrong choice of changes because of a few players that complained about some people abusing the feat. It is true that my main character can disarm just about anything but I do not abuse it. I use it during faction defence, relic raids and against PKers solely and I always offer the weapons back even if it's just in exchange for items lost during a raid. I do not have an uber build but she is good at ONE thing and that has just been taken away because I use it effectively. Their was no justification in the change and I feel that the change only happened because some of the people that got disarmed didn't think it was fair that their "Cleric" couldn't fight without a weapon. I personally don't see a problem with one of the most powerfull classes actually being STOPPED if you take their weapons away. Any fighter worth their salt is going to have enough Discipline to defend against Disarm and not have to worry about it but a cleric might not be so lucky.

MLoki

Poet · Post by **Poet** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:05 pm

Well whether it was a bug or not...it still sucks now..and all those weapons that people liked so well such as Amazon Queen axes and Storm Kamas will now be excruciatingly hard for ANYONE to get as they wont be disarmable as they were before. We know..we've tried. Thanks whiners...

Next thing you know we'll all be fighting with Rubber chickens so we don't cause "damage" to you either. It's about as realistic.

Not feeling very Poetic at the moment.

Death Dealer1 · Post by **Death Dealer1** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:11 pm

is that why there are so many of those weapons around...wow, and think i just killed the NPC that had the weapon to get it.

MLoki · Post by **MLoki** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:21 pm

Sry I don't have a SD that can solo Amazons yet Death Dealer but honestly I haven't done that trick that often either. I usually just go with Sirus and we make the kill anyways but for special orders I have done fly bys for a Kama or two since not many can solo the temple map. It is true that they don't seem to be dropping [edit]as often[edit] if disarmed now but I also just tested out the feat against another Melee character and he was able to re-equip the weapon almost immediatly. He attacked twice without a weapon then re-equipped it and continued attacking. This doesn't seem right somehow. If I have to defeat their discipline anyways you might as well just KD them instead. So now new players who don't know that disarm sucks will still take the feat and find out that it doesn't work and get discouraged this way as well. Instead of the new player possibly seeing builds with disarm (the way it was) and encouraging them to try this wonderfull feat.

MLoki

[Edit] sry to have doubted you Zing. After extensive testing I finally did get a NPC weapon to drop again. It did seem like it was less frequent but I may have just been unlucky for a spell. DCN is still taking requests for items and will be glad to fill any order.

Zaranthys Rivermoon · Post by **Zaranthys Rivermoon** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:53 pm

I would like to add a little perspective here ...

Disarm is meant to disarm and greatly reduce the attacking capacity of your opponent. Yes, I think it would be more realisitc if the disarmed weapon would simply drop to the ground. However, let us all remember that disarm is for just that -disarming an opponent-, and not for a roundabout way of 'weapon-pickpocketing' ... which it was turning out to be because of that 'buggy' nature of its script as mentioned by Netrom earlier.

So, in essence, where is the problem? Disarm is still disarm and the same checks/rules apply ... you just don't get to use it as a means of stealing weapons anymore - which turns out to have been an exploit all along.

So - except from not being able to "pickpocket weapons" anymore, the disarm feat still remains as it was ....

Mental · Post by **Mental** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:20 pm

Zing if ur reading this, can u do the 3 lvl rule u suggested bout disarming, and if so maybe have the 50% chance of having the weapon going into ur backpack or land on the ground. I think this would be best because u have to be within 3 lvls of the disarmer, and there will be a chance ur weapon wont fall on the ground, combined these 2 ideas would rule

Poet · Post by **Poet** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:38 pm

Compromise is always welcomed!

Elagneros · Post by **Elagneros** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:54 pm

I don't really see what the big deal is. The only real problem with disarm was the pkers who disarm people specifially to steal weapons. I admit I've done this myself (mostly to kst or other enemies), but we all know there was that handful of players that would go around taking people's equipment. At least this creates the same hassle of losing your weapon and having it deslotted without having some goon steal it from you.

Daedalus · Post by **Daedalus** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 5:52 pm

that's a good idea but you woudl have to limit the number of time you coudl use it in a round, make it a limit of 1 disarm every few rounds to make it fair otherwise you can just keep spamming it and it would be pointless. Specially dual weilders with disarm.

MasterYoda · Post by **MasterYoda** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:30 pm

Daedalus wrote:that's a good idea but you woudl have to limit the number of time you coudl use it in a round, make it a limit of 1 disarm every few rounds to make it fair otherwise you can just keep spamming it and it would be pointless. Specially dual weilders with disarm.

Or why not make it like animal empathy .... where the use is only limited to 1 0r 2 times every 5 or 10 seconeds.......

This would stop the spamming of disarm and would still make the ability effective...

With this "bug" fixed i understand the side where people dont want something stolen from them but at the same time there are ways to get around it....

Also in a realistic sense i have heard some people say " man that weapon was so hard to get".... well then you would value it enough to go run and grab another one.

Or pay one of the Mafia to grab one...

High Diciplin = no disarming
High Spot , Listen = no hipsing ...

there is an answer to everything on this server if you look hard enough..

lordvan52681 · Post by **lordvan52681** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:56 pm

I will post one last reply to this topic, then Ill shut up about it.

the following quote is from NWNWiki. I found it while doing research for our Wiki.

NWNWiki wrote:Most people consider it good-manners to allow a disarmed player to retrieve their weapon after they've been defeated. Some servers use a script which unequips the weapon to inventory and removes it from quickslot. Taking someone else's disarmed weapon can lead to banning on some servers.