Blairconz wrote:PPL only whine when something is wrong, there is only smoke where there is fire. The Developers should wipe, put more stuff in and fix the bugs and then release all the bloodthirsty Pkers back into the world with something for them to REALLY make a mess of
I AM A CONZ
A TRUE CONZ
ULTRACONZ
correction, people whine *WHEN THEY THINK* something is wrong in thier own mind.
there is nothing wrong right now... it's beta... things being wrong are suspected and thus since it is suspected it isnt wrong.
Type post, tab tab enter, wait 4page 2 load, shift+tab tab enter, REPEAT!!!
Actually, as a tester, I know that a beta is much more advanced. There would be quests, jobs, etc. and would be almost complete in beta form. It's closer to an Alpha than a Beta.
An example would be to look at the difference when Blizzard releases a game into beta. All the functionality is complete... they just test for bugs and balance. NS4 is far from complete or at lease it isn't being displayed to the public.
Note: I'm not complaining, just stating the truth.
A comparison between NS and Blizzard is like a comparison between apples and oranges. NS devs do so much for the NWN community, and so many of us still [censored] and complain and ignorantly compare the NS devs to the behemoth corporate Blizzard.
note then also that warcraft 3 went into beta how many times before it was done being ripped apart and being put back together? you see, as far as you know they can have most of that done, but havent implemented it yet for a number of reasons. Not to mention... alpha was when the module was being planned and set up.. before anyone had even set thier hand into the toolset. NS4 atm is a skeleton and for good reason. why make then entire thing up and est it then to find out you have to go all the way back to the beginning and fix the skeleton.. and sine your all the way back there u then have to reconstruct everything else. Why not instead makes sure your skeleton, first, is correct then continue to build from there? We dont want NS4 to be like blizzard... tis fine as it is.
Type post, tab tab enter, wait 4page 2 load, shift+tab tab enter, REPEAT!!!
I told you I wasn't complaining or saying it was bad in any way... all I was saying is that it was alpha at the moment. I love the mod and think the areas that do exist now are quite interesting and fun to play in. Much more thought was put in this mod then almost any other out there. i.e. Spells changed like true seeing and bigby's to make other skills (hide, MS) more useful. Stupid skills removed like Dev Critical, etc. The new concept of jobs is very intreguing.
I think this mod is one of the best I've seen. It's just in it's early development from what I can see. I don't see a wipe happening anytime soon unless they have a bunch of stuff hidden from us
Throst, yes, I agree that it's possible they are hiding most of the new development, but we don't actually know that. I'm just commenting on what I can see and what has been communicated to us by devs, ignorant of all else.
alpha
adj 1: first in order of importance; "the alpha male in the group of chimpanzees"; "the alpha star in a constellation is the brightest or main star" 2: early testing stage of a software or hardware product; "alpha version" n 1: the 1st letter of the Greek alphabet 2: the beginning of a series or sequence; "the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end"--Revelations
beta
adj 1: second in order of importance; "the candidate, considered a beta male, was perceived to be unable to lead his party to victory" 2: preliminary or testing stage of a software or hardware product; "a beta version"; "beta software" n 1: the 2nd letter of the Greek alphabet 2: beets
Yes, I agree that arguing is good and fun because you learn more, otherwise statements would never be challenged. Thank you, Throst, your argument makes this more involved
Ok, so that aside... Yes, by definition alone it is a best-test because it's released to the public. The trouble with using a dictionary is that you lose sight of reality sometimes. Using this definition I could produce a module with 200 screens, put some monsters, a merchant, test it a little and then release it to outside users and call it a beta even though I know it has lots of bugs, it's missing all quests, and is nowhere near complete.
I'v played in more than a few beta's that were a lot less finished or polished than NS4 is. Ultracorps and World War II Online come to mind immeadiatly. Beta is a variable, it is the point at which the developers choose to open to the flood gates of humanity for their input. In the case of NS4 it was opened at a point where the bugs could be hunted down AND where the community could add their ideas to the finished product.
Compared to the closed Beta for NS4, the current build is truly a step up. However in all fairness if so many are displeased in helping us through the beta stage, we can of course always lock the doors again and go back to closed beta testing. Believe it or not, we are still getting plenty of information back from even the people who have never filed a bug report or made a comment to anyone. Getting a handle on the rampant PK and the various justifications some players use to engage in mindless and senseless killing sprees, while still leaving the RP/PvP aspect in place is a more difficult task than may seem at first. To this end even the griefers are giving us information just by our observing their interactions.
Work still progresses though, new Devs and new DMs getting added to the team and trained up. New zones, mobs, jobs, scripting tweaks, and bug fixes progressing nicely. We cant say how soon some of it may be seen as more than a little bit is intertied so much of it will have to be done in one mass update, and odd issues slow things down now and again. Not the least of which is real life issues, and trying to coordinate a team that is literally spread out all over the world (time zones are a killer for a few of us).
*Computers are alot like air-conditioners. They work great until you open windows*
Great post TGPO. I'm sure everyone is very grateful that they can take part in playing on the Beta.
I'm guessing that some people, from just reading the forums, might have got the impression that development *might* have stalled or something. From logging into the Bug Tracking system you can tell that this is definitely *not* the case, but not everyone has done that.
So yeah, great PW and I'm sure everyone appreciates all the work being done it's just that I people like to know what's going on behind the scenes sometime (I do but then I'm just a nosy < insert rude word here >).
Edit: Starting new thread on griefing.
Last edited by Zhorn on Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I agree with Zhorn, that post was useful TGPO and I do appreciate playing in the open Beta. I'd like to suggest that in order to quell the "Is this server going anywhere?" "development is stalled" blather, could one of the DM's be assigned to a weekly post letting the players know what is being done? It could be something as simple as a list of dev's and their project status... for example:
Lokey - trying to resolve skill point banking issues.
Bob the builder - reconfiguring dwarven tunnels.
Lucy - real life stepped in, no work on module done this week.
etc.
I really think that the dispersal of information is the weakest link here. When the truth isn't discussed, inuendo and rumour flies.
Sweet. Thanks, TGPO, for the update. That's pretty much all I wanted. It's nice to see someone give an update of how things are going. And I love the idea, Brennan, of an update every so often... just to make people happy... even if it's simple. Is it possible?
I do realize that it was for the benefit of the community to release it early, so I'm cool with that... I think it's just the lack of updates that frustrates people. Even if it's just simple. Like tossing out a treat every now and then
