Whats the Diff?

Wolfarus · Post by **Wolfarus** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:45 am

Ok i have available a helm that gives "+4 to saves vs. mind spells" or something to that effect, and then there's lagnars helm, which gives a +3 to my will saves. So my question is, whats the diff? Id think that the +4 to mind spells would cover anything that requires a will save, right?

Denort · Post by **Denort** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 8:20 am

No it gives exactly what it says. A bonus of +4 to any save vs Mind effects. If it was a Fortitude save vs Mind (a mental disease or something) it would work. If it was a Will save vs traps it would not.

Think of the items that give a bonus vs Death. It does not matter if the death effect is Fortitude, Reflex or Will the bonus will kick in. This is much the same except for any Mind effect.

Wolfarus · Post by **Wolfarus** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 9:25 am

Well, the main effects im looking to have the best chance of negating are: Confusion, Daze, and Paralyze. As i understand it, those are all "mind" spells. So the saves vs. mind spells should work on those, right?

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 3:32 am

The save type depends on the source of those effects...

Spura · Post by **Spura** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:25 am

A lot of will save effects are mind spells. Phantasmal killer included partially. Will save effects that are not considered mind spells would be: Prismatic spray death effect, bodak death gaze, banishment, dismissal, planar binding
I am not sure about stonehold.

Phantasmal killer skips will save if you have mind spell immunity.

ATI · Post by **ATI** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 9:25 pm

Yeah, but not all will saves are mind spells. I don't think at least. There are some abilities, that are will save only, but not saved by resistance to mind spells. Mind spells, only works on spells, will saves, works on all will saves.

However, im not sure if that matters much in NWN, in DND it does

IcemanXV · Post by **IcemanXV** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 12:34 am

Spura wrote:I am not sure about stonehold.

To my knowledge stonehold is a mind save, because On another server that was full PvP when I ran through it the battle dialogue read (xplayerx is immune to mind spells). I had a mind immune helm on, so that's my guess.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:12 am

Stonehold is a Will save, but belongs to the Paralysis family of effects (Freedom negates). Might have been another spell you saved against?

Bonuses to Will saves cover a much larger range of effects, so for the cost of a single point you may want to go with that.

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:19 am

Bob wrote:Stonehold is a Will save, but belongs to the Paralysis family of effects (Freedom negates). Might have been another spell you saved against?

I think it's the devs decision. If I was a dev I would treat it as a type of petrification.

Bob wrote:Bonuses to Will saves cover a much larger range of effects, so for the cost of a single point you may want to go with that.

I would also take +3 will over +4 midspell saves.

IcemanXV · Post by **IcemanXV** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:26 pm

Well as far as I know the spell was untampered on that server. I'm almost sure that when i ran through the stonehold effect it gave me a will save vs mind spells.

Devs might have changed it to a will save vs paralysis, because it IS the spell's descriptor. I know It doesn't work on those with freedom, RDDs, or Pale Masters.

Spura · Post by **Spura** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:57 pm

ATI wrote:Yeah, but not all will saves are mind spells. I don't think at least. There are some abilities, that are will save only, but not saved by resistance to mind spells. Mind spells, only works on spells, will saves, works on all will saves.

However, im not sure if that matters much in NWN, in DND it does

And that is different to what I said how? I said exactly the same thing and I gave you some examples like Banishment

Throst54 · Post by **Throst54** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:56 pm

Yea, although mind saves arent definatly will saves. there is some stuff howeverthat are will saves only and not mind spells. a bonus to will saves helps willsaves and mind saves.. but mind saves only help mind saves.

sheez, u'd think after ths many replies some1 would have let the poor guy know...

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:59 pm

Sorry, we were just posting in that way because we thought he was SMRT!

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 6:54 pm

Ooooo... boy rite gud!