Casters Beware!!! The Death of Death Magic and Casters

IcemanXV · Post by **IcemanXV** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 1:32 am

Any way to boost Spell DC by 2 for every 4 epic caster levels? that would add an extra 10 to DC at least...

rodney_ws · Post by **rodney_ws** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 1:48 am

A very good suggestion (assuming you're a caster) but one that hasn't been implemented or even suggested by a developer... guess I'll just hold onto my caster build a bit longer and hope for the best.

IcemanXV · Post by **IcemanXV** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 4:42 am

I mainly play a casting druid so I would like to make sure they have a fighting chance at higher levels.

KD would be bypassable, but even with encouraging pure class builds, it's hard to resist some levels of fighter for some feats, proficiencies, and discipline ranks.

Throst54 · Post by **Throst54** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 4:59 am

u cud always max your disc skill... take epic skill focus discipline...

sit there and laugh as u watch them try and knock you down for 5 minutes until they realize they cant....

AlienOverlord · Post by **AlienOverlord** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:34 am

Multiclass. Take a level of fighter and put on armor and shield, get the auto quicken feats (dropping the int feats) and you'll have a high ac and will be hard to hit and therefore knock down. Cast maximized missile storms for 240 points of damage and I think you'll stand a chance.

Of course, I don't know what the ab vs AC will be like, but it usually works out in favor of AC. You can even throw a hand on him to lower his ab by 10 and take improv expertise to increase your AC by 10, that's gotta be enough to make you only be hit on a 20.

Spura · Post by **Spura** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:55 am

rodney_ws wrote:The absolute maximum INT a character will have is 50 (and doing that really wrecks your build) So there is +20 on a spell's DC... assuming you take all 3 spell focus feats (focus, greater focus, epic focus) that'll add 6... your base is a 10 + spell level so we're up to 45 (20 + 6 + 10 + 9) and it is possible to add another two by choosing a school of magic to specialize in (and giving up the ability to cast see invisibility, true seeing, identify and premonition among other spells) so we're back to our maximum DC47 on death magic (or any magic for that matter)

Choosing a spell school give you 1 extra slot per spell level and +2 to spellcraft checks with that school NOT +2 to DC with that school. Amazingly huge amounts of people mistakenly believe specializing as a wizard makes for a higher DC.

rodney_ws · Post by **rodney_ws** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:01 pm

Well, I learn something new every day (Spura) I'm not sure where I got the idea from that a school would add +2 to DC... however that just makes the situation worse... so now it would appear that the maximum DC (as best I can calculate) is 45. That's very beatable on a regular basis. Poor casters.

Throst54 · Post by **Throst54** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:57 pm

ok, so quit whining and learn how to make thier saves lower.

you have more than one type of spell.

they still charging at you?
cast incendiary cloud, slow, and mayb e a few str reducing spells..

slow em down where at the point u can run around him in circles w/ your haste... casting yoru spells as you please.

lvl drain. lowers thier saves. only clerics/druids can cast greater restoration.

just a few ways...

IcemanXV · Post by **IcemanXV** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 3:44 pm

Throst54 wrote:ok, so quit whining and learn how to make thier saves lower.

you have more than one type of spell.

they still charging at you?
cast incendiary cloud, slow, and mayb e a few str reducing spells..

slow em down where at the point u can run around him in circles w/ your haste... casting yoru spells as you please.

lvl drain. lowers thier saves. only clerics/druids can cast greater restoration.

just a few ways...

Druids can't even cast greater restore

The problem with DCs being low is even the spells that lower their stats require some saves, so its a viscious cycle. It's not complaining by anybody. Even lokey agrees the spell DC tapers off fast in epic levels compared to saving throws.

Throst54 · Post by **Throst54** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 4:26 pm

tenser's transformation in epic lvls is so brocken it's not even funny...

buff, transform... u shud have any tank beaten tho

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 5:18 pm

Could always make spell save (10 + (2 per 3 PCLVL's) + SP LVL + Feats) and leave the ability mod out of it. Would make casters a lot more versatile as far as Ability point are needed, would only need 19 for the level 9 spells, and higher only for extra spell slots.
At level 40 they could have up 51 (53 with chosen school) DC for level 9 spells, not to mention higher str for carrying stuff, or way more hitpoints from con because of the extra ability points they get from only having to have 19 in their main casting ability.
Of course this is just an example.

The main idea taken from this post should be to make DC's according to Caster Levels instead of ability mods. Whether is be 2 per 3 caster levels or 3 per 4 caster levels, or whatever the devs see fit.

(As a side note: Caster Bard's would benefit tremendously from this system, they would only need 16 Cha for spell casting purposes.)

maxgrane · Post by **maxgrane** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:31 am

ehe kool! thanx

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:39 am

maxgrane wrote:o hehe. misunderstood =]
oooo.. if you have auto quicken... then you get 2 spell per round?
so if you had haste with thtat... is that 3 spell/round?

It doesn't stack in regular NWN, and the NS4 modified version of Haste doesn't give you an extra spell per round regardless, so no.

Psycho Dordt · Post by **Psycho Dordt** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 7:35 pm

actually auto quicken in combination with haste has a lill effect... unimportant in PvM divine in PvP

AND

having spells like about all the Bigsbies spells nerfed down the drain, teh DmG mantle spells screwed so bad its not even worth remembering they excist in Ns4

about teh comment that Ns4 has content till lvl 20 change that to lvl 16

Hulgaru · Post by **Hulgaru** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 8:05 pm

Wow... not to sound calous or nothing... but when the game starts to get a little more balanced, or someone's HUGE STICK OF DEATH spell suddenly isn't so huge, people sure know how to whine about it.

Let's face it... even though Casters have the widest flexibility available to them, they still find a reason to complain?

Tons of regular damage spells aren't worth it? Firebrand? Ice Storm? Lightning Bolt? Chain Lightning? Fireball? IGMS? IMS? heck, Magic Missile? Not to mention all the backup spells... one's that people don't even pay attention too sometimes... like Enervation? Level Drain? Ray of Enfeeblement? Slow? Or has everyone's Uber caster builds shunned all the utility spells that mages get? Darkness to cover a retreat? and then once out of darkness, drop some icestorms into the mix?

Accept the fact that there is no one build to rule them all, and in the darkness bind them. Get used to having to adapt your spells... Melee types have to adapt their weapons... is there something inherently bad about having to adapt?

All that flamebait out of the way, please remember, as others have said, this is still a mod in progress, the higher levels haven't been added, the pure class specific items haven't been added... people have zero idea (except the devs) about what is coming down the pipes, so a negative post like this one simply isn't appropriate... yet. Now, if after the mod has "gone live" and these "issues" haven't been addressed, then I give anyone and everyone free license to revist this issue.

In the meantime, try experimenting with lesser used spells. Maybe you've overlooked something, eh?