Module Design Clarification

[garrykasparov]

there's a difference between 'defending' your faction in faction terrority(ie your town) and chasing down lvl 5's with your lvl 20+ when they're hunting formians...

That was something I was wondering about as well. I can see how a high level would be agitated if he had to allow a mid-level to wander his home territory (potentially killing lowbie allies). I guess I simply don't know enough about the context of the aforementioned killings to offer much useful input.

[DeputyDog]

Everyone has good points. Axon is correct and justified in being angered at how he has been treated. Our dms are supposed to be on a behind the scenes status observing how the game flows so that we can make small adjustments.

Actively affecting players and killing them is a nono and unless someone is being totally abusive there should be no real interaction.

Quests and roleplaying while possesing an npc is fine but it needs to stay in the context of the game for now. We cannot accurately test the world with people laying down the law.

This will all be changed as of now.

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That being said, I know it can be difficult for a new player to log onto the module and be killed by a high level rampaging thru that faction. However the new player loses nothing from the death except for some time walking. They can then turn around and go somewhere else, or ask for assistance from their faction in repelling the threat.

Factions need to band together and protect their own. That is the design philosophy; Not to nerf and restrict everything.

Some classes will be tweaked.. some will even get powers added back as we observe. I agree that mages have been taken down a notch, and they will probably get some power back in the long run. The whole Idea is to keep each class with several weaknesses so that other classes or parties can counter each other.

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Rest assured, this is a full pvp mod. The thrill of fighting a human is the best experience you can have in this game as long as the terms are halfway even. Parties and levels help, and sometimes you wont stand a chance. But noone is immortal and there is always a bigger fish.

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There does need to be some courtesy at least among people from their own faction. But it is a dog eat dog world and advancing may be hard. If it was easy it wouldnt be worth playing.

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Now if we could just get server 3 back online....

[AndrewCarr]

DD, why not merge server 3 areas with server 1? Seems like you merged the second and 3rd largest factions, and left the largest and smallest alone.

[Edit:] nvm, it seems ma and sl are on server two, in which case i'd suggest 3 and 2 be merged for the time being, if it would be better on lag.

[ATI]

Alexia, people will be upset with you because you're at the top. Simple as that. And techinically you are their antithesis of all the other chars.

Even though I wish you wouldn't kill sometimes, I understand you're RPing the faction war, which gives others something to aim for.


EVERYONE ELSE: Get of Alexiagold's back. Simple as that, he kills out of faction, which is the purpose of the mod. If newb's don't like that, stay out of his way. If you get killed, Get better, work with a gruop and eventually avenger you ill gotten death. But stop complaining. One day the DM's will get sick of it and ban YOU from constantly whining.

[Lokey]

Sometimes it's worth checking the Bio forums (though rare):

Snakebait
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU


Joined: 24 Jan 2003
From: London, UK

Posted: Thursday, 20 May 2004 11:10AM
Bit frustrating for people who have put ability points in the social stats, when someone with 8/10/8 comes along and outshines them with brilliant deductions, insights and team/leadership skills (and then outshines them in combat as well) because the player wants to roleplay all-round perfection and doesn't see why their stats should stop them.

Nobody has a problem with the fact that 8 Strength can't hit critters as hard or as often as 18, so why the big deal about 8 Cha not being as popular as 18, or 8 Wis not having the insight of 18?

We all know what the answer is. It's the same reason I don't see anyone arguing that everyone should get the same Will saves regardless of Wisdom (although that would seem to be the logical extension of any argument that the ability score is meaningless). The game engine makes you play the combat stats, allows you X number of spells and so on, and unless it's your server or you have a tame DM there's no arguing with that is there? Roleplaying the social stats, on the other hand, is up to you and your conscience.

It comes back to the same old thing. If you can't enforce something then some people will use that to their advantage and then come up with a variety of reasons to justify why it's acceptable. Others - namely people who DON'T do what you do and therefore are disadvantaged in interactions with you - will think you are metagaming, cheating, not roleplaying properly, whatever label they might put on it.

The answer is to choose your fellow players carefully if you have strong views about this sort of thing. If you find your views are in the minority (or against server rules), then either resign yourself to constant OOC conflict (spoken or unspoken) or find a group better suited to your style.

NS is envisioned as a game space to have fun in. Have fun is the first and foremost rule. Whether or not we can support all NWN gaming preferences side-by-side remains to be seen, and as always I'm mystified when players want to reduce the game to drudgery (crunch mobs til I'm uber enough to go crunch other players).

Our status right now is a world that offers most of what NS3 did, but on a larger scale with more variety. There's quite a ways to go to offer more game potential than other persistent worlds, but the backbone of the project was ready for a larger test and hopefully we'll iron out enough problems to get back to working on content.

[ATI]

If you want to start working together, Read the ideas and suggestions forums. Already people are saying that we should work together. The problem is people are getting to caught up in the game as being really serious, this game is about fun. If you have fun being a little retentive about the way the game works, then by all means, don't expect many friends, and also don't expect much help from others.

As the DM's have stated, this is full PvP. Also Lokey is right and so is snakebait.

[Ezer]

Is there really such thing as a powergaming/roleplay hybrid? Given my impression of these two styles of play, it would seem that they're diametrically opposed to each other. Granted, its possible to roleplay and powergame at the same time, its just not as likely considering the mindset of the style.

[AndrewCarr]

I'd say people just focus too much on one thing. Sure you may need to take 1 lvl of something to make your paladin better, but it doesn't mean you have to roleplay a mix between the classes. Just roleplay the paladin still, and think of the multi classing as fixing balancing mistakes.

[ATI]

Yes, you can powergame and RP. Think about it like this...what fighter wouldn't do everything he can in order to be the BEST fighter. Alexia has essentially done that. Axon is uber, and that can be a part of the RPing element. However, that wasn't the purpose of this post.

PVP is full, go kill each other, or go make peace.

[Kell Of Neversummer]

as far as I am concerned PvP is still broken. I have been Pk'ed 6 times - and lost xp and gold 5 times. If there is not supposed to be a penalty, then it is still broken. The last 2 times I was killed as I logged in. If I cannot get into the game without being DOA, then pk'ing is broke.

[bongoblue]

Its interesting to read all of the whining being done by the PKers now that more people are calling their 'attack levels 1-5 with a 20th level' unacceptable.

I've talked to other people gaming elsewhere. Apparently this is one of the few online games where those who aren't interested in PvP/PK cannot opt out of it. One of the few where there are level restrictions about who can PK who.

Its immaterial that the character being PKed doesn't lose gold and xp, it has to do with some players having no interest in PK/PvP.

Last year when I was looking to game online, I checked reviews of various MMORPGs. Over and over I saw reviews that said that a particular mmorpg had gone bust because PvP/PK had become the controlling thing and everyonenot interested in that had left, because there was no way to opt out of it.

If the PvP/PK overwhelms this persistant world, I for one will be leaving.

Before anyone overreacts, I'm not using leaving as an attempt at pressure to stop PK/PvP.

I'm saying that many viable online games have an opt out for those not interested in PK/PvP.

I believe that nothing but one thing, like PK/PvP, would make a game world boring. And boring isn't the way to keep players.

I feel that those who want to PK/PvP each other, let them. Wont get an argument from me.

But those who aren't interested should be allowed to opt out.

I enjoy exploring game worlds. I don't enjoy PK/PvP.

I'm willing to accept that PK/PvP exists here, but rather obviously some of the PKers don't want anyone to be able to opt out.

Those whose only gaming 'style' is PK should realize just how boring that is.

[Levan75]

Ermmm Bongo this server is PvP, as stated by DD higher up, irrespective of rules about levels, killing effys etc, at some point you will be attacked by someone of equivalent level, at that point you may die, if so too bad, learn to play PvP or atleast dont whine if the kill is within game rules, bottom line is in a player vs player world pk exists... I mean classic example is....

I ran into a hostile in the Northern coalition excampment, this means he is sitting in the middle of one of my respawn points, his summons attacked me. I attacked him, his rating was challenging, yet he still whinges. fact is if I see him again he is KOS irrespective of what he is currently doing.. mind u I am a paladin so I probably bellow something suitable honourable before lopping of his head, but you never know it might be my head on the ground.

At this point I think, and I actually respect and like many of the players "against" PvP, that if u really hate PvP and you cant stand the pking this isnt the mod for you... either put up or shut up, it has to be that simple.

[AndrewCarr]

as far as I am concerned PvP is still broken. I have been Pk'ed 6 times - and lost xp and gold 5 times. If there is not supposed to be a penalty, then it is still broken. The last 2 times I was killed as I logged in. If I cannot get into the game without being DOA, then pk'ing is broke.

Here's a list of known cases i've experienced to cause xp loss on pvp death b/c the server dumps your death history:

you log- if you're dead when you log, or I'm fairly certain if you crash then die.

if the server crashes and you're dead

if the server you're on is different than the one you're bound to

And although i've heard planars don't lose xp anymore, this could also be a reason.

[AndrewCarr]

bongo, which mmo's were these? Could easily have been ones that were going to fail for lack of funding, publicity, or just for being a crap game.

[Dyson]

as far as I am concerned PvP is still broken. I have been Pk'ed 6 times - and lost xp and gold 5 times. If there is not supposed to be a penalty, then it is still broken. The last 2 times I was killed as I logged in. If I cannot get into the game without being DOA, then pk'ing is broke.

Here's a list of known cases i've experienced to cause xp loss on pvp death b/c the server dumps your death history:

you log- if you're dead when you log, or I'm fairly certain if you crash then die.

if the server crashes and you're dead

if the server you're on is different than the one you're bound to

And although i've heard planars don't lose xp anymore, this could also be a reason.

Add to that: if you get dropped to negs by a PK and bleed out, you take the respawn penalty.