General balancing problems

Agent Shiny · Post by **Agent Shiny** » Fri May 14, 2004 8:21 pm

lol spells do wear off
but as a fighter how the hell do u remove those spells?
dispel magic? spell breach? mord? etc?
lol NO. none. u'll be depended on items for that.

BaconStrip · Post by **BaconStrip** » Wed May 19, 2004 12:38 pm

XxDkCobraxX wrote:people have to get out of this ns3 mindset! just because a character you have cannot kill everything anywhere at all times doesnt mean that character is not worth playing. ever hear of playing a character just to have fun? believe it or not, it happens!!!

my druid is not very powerful. cant do everything on his own, but thats COOL because it means i party with other cool people and go have fun as a group. i cant remember the last time i had to do that on ns3 =/

why dont you focus on your teamwork and exploring and testing rather than what you can or cannot solo or PvP. if your guy sucks at PvP vs stoneskin or premonition, then dont PvP man, run away! life is tough, no one said a mage was ever going to play fair and say "oh, you cant hit me when i have stoneskin? my bad, let me drop my defenses that are designed to thwart the dumb fighter type."

The problem is the ENTIRE GAME is based off of faction vs faction combat, meaning PvP will be involved for every character at some point. Therefore, the DEVs have the responsibility to make every character included in the mod viable, which they haven't.

Shasz · Post by **Shasz** » Wed May 19, 2004 12:54 pm

Therefore, the DEVs have the responsibility to make every character included in the mod viable, which they haven't.

No they don't. It's party PvP. Find a party that will beat the other guy's party. Over and over they've said it's not entirely intended as a solo mod.

Each character plays an important role in a party. If you don't specialize in your role, the party may not need/want you.

Enjoy the mod for what it is and quit trying to force everyone to play your way.

MrShadow · Post by **MrShadow** » Wed May 19, 2004 9:36 pm

Our job as DMs does not involve babysitting..

our job as DMs is to handle situations that players can not handle on their own, and provide some fun for the players..

don't worry guys as the open beta smooths out, we will have more positive interaction with the players..

Æ · Post by Æ » Thu May 20, 2004 2:33 pm

Shasz, it's you "join-a-party-if-the-classes-aren't-balanced" radicals who are trying to tell people to play your way. Whenever someone makes that "the Dev's did not intend to let anyone solo" argument, they neglect to mention that the devs also did not want to exclude the possibility of soloing, so players who prefer to play that way can have fun too, and having the lone wolf types running around also adds some grey area to the black-and-white of average "kill anyone from a different faction" playing style (which leaves little room for variety, creativity, or even thought, in our gaming world).

Stop harping on soloers and trying to make us play your way. To be totally honest, I don't want to party with most of you because most of you have no patience and little strategical skill, or talk too much, or complain too much, or annoy me in some other way; just like I don't want to bother speaking with 98% of the people I pass by in life because most of them annoy me... Deal with it, not everyone is sociable or wants to hang out with just anyone, and some of us prefer to be left alone alot of the time..... and that shouldn't bother you..

And AGAIN the purpose of the beta test and these forums is to find imbalance issues and deal with them, so stop standing in the way of progress lol. The classes need to be equally useful even if they are in a party, or they won't be contributing anything to the party but an xp drain and wasting the clerics rez spells }: P

2 cents from Neversummer's goth crowd lmao

Shasz · Post by **Shasz** » Thu May 20, 2004 2:56 pm

AE, I solo 95% of the time too. I'm not harping against soloing, I'm saying if you can't do it solo, bring a party. The devs said you could solo *some* of the content, but the mod is designed around partying and factional pvp. I didn't make the "the Dev's did not intend to let anyone solo" argument, I said the devs didn't say it was entirely a solo mod - meaning just that, you're not going to be able to solo the entire mod. Some things will require a party... and PvP is a great place to have a party with you.

Nobody is forcing you to play this mod. I picked it because it sounded like a world I wanted to play in. Why did you pick it? So you could shape it into your idea of a world?

I was talking to Baconstrip and his insistence that the devs should make fighters, casters, rogues, clerics and everything else equally balanced. I'm not trying to change your, or anyone's play style, I'm pointing out that one style of play doesn't fit every situation. If you can't adjust your style to the mod, why should the mod be adjusted to fit your play style? Should every flathead screw in the world be converted to phillips because you only own one screwdriver? Find the right tool for the situation.

Æ · Post by Æ » Thu May 20, 2004 3:08 pm

Ah ok, sorry, just thought it was a repeat of the same old argument about solo players being evil }: P

I'm here because all my friends from a year and a half of NS3 playing are here... and I sit back watching them totally throw away everything that made that world great and all the new players bashing the NS3 players for thinking the way we do, but as far as I'm concerned, they're new, and those of us who have been around shouldn't be told that our options are to be unhappy with the world or leave all our old friends... I think those old relationships should be respected and preserved ABOVE making all the new ideas and players and RPers happy....... and truthfully I'm here temporarily to see if it'll ever become as fun as NS3 was, and if I'm not happy with it in the long run I will stop wasting my time, but don't tell me to leave, I'll do that when I see fit

And no one can reasonably deny that all classes should be comparable in power in any PvP setting

EvanFallen · Post by **EvanFallen** » Thu May 20, 2004 3:21 pm

And no one can reasonably deny that all classes should be comparable in power

If things were equal, ask yourself: Why play a cleric when you can play a fighter? Why go Paladin or Bard when the fighter is equally as strong or better because of more feats. Clerics, Druids, Paladins, and Bards are not easy to play. While they are powerful, they often cannot just sweep through spawns. Resting and buffing for every fight gets to be tiresome. Why play these classes if the easier ones to play are as equal in power?

Shasz · Post by **Shasz** » Thu May 20, 2004 3:23 pm

No harm no foul

Yeah, I can see the loss a lot are feeling with the NS3 to NS4 switch. Non pvp moving to a pvp world is a big shakeup. But its not all bad, and it can be a lot more fun. The biggest thing is just to be a little more wary, and not complain if you lose. The griefers love to hear the complaints... it's a turn on or something to them. If they don't feel they've ruined your day, or impacted your game any, they'll likely leave you alone next time.

...and I'll reasonably deny it

Actually, that's a fair statement. Comparable in power, yes, but not an equal match for every other character out there. I still think DnD is a rock scissors paper kind of game. Some character builds will be the bane of others. The design behind warriors and casters is significantly different, and you can't come up with a perfect balance for every situation.

Æ · Post by Æ » Thu May 20, 2004 3:27 pm

Even: Roleplay, personal preference, whatever you have more fun playing.... then people wouldn't be picking their class based only one what's most powerful in the mod or what they play most powerfullly, but on character development, maybe a background, fitting into the general plot of the mod, and a bit based on image as well. People would choose their class based on what was most fun to them, or what they thought was cool }: )

Oh, and I agree Shasz, every class should have their own specialties, strengths and weaknesses, I just think It should all be comparable and fairly balanced... as close as can be

Shasz · Post by **Shasz** » Thu May 20, 2004 3:30 pm

FWIW (For What it's Worth) AE, I play a melee character too. I keep wanting to try a mage, but can't bring myself to have to rest every 10 steps and recast my buffs and pets and load up on firepower for the next combat. There may be great power and strength in it, but I'm determined to make the best of my rogue / fighter type and survive in spite of the odds of mages getting the best of me.

Edit: Mages / Clerics / Whatever is uber today

Æ · Post by Æ » Thu May 20, 2004 3:35 pm

FWIW? I have no idea what that means dude }: )

I totally agree, look at my characters below lol... I'm determined to survive all the magic flying around too damn it!!! lol --evades random wilting--

AndrewCarr · Post by **AndrewCarr** » Thu May 20, 2004 4:06 pm

I'm having trouble making will saves(who's not). Currently at lvl22(21 ranger, 1 bard) i have +9 to will saves, and much more on reflex and fort. Any of you guys found a good way to increase them permanently? My wisdom is 15 atm.

Shasz · Post by **Shasz** » Thu May 20, 2004 4:21 pm

I have an amulet with +5 wisdom, and my helmet has like +3 to will saves. My armor has a bonus to fort saves, and that normally comes on belts, so it wouldn't surprise me if there are armors or other items with will save bonuses too besides helmets.

Potions/items of owl's wisdom will boost your will save through boosting wisdom.

Raise your bard levels for the bonus to saves from your song.

As for being a decent anti-mage melee class, I'm a dwarf (+2 saves vs spells) and half dwarven defender (will and fort saves are good) and the other half rogue (reflex saves). All without being a monk

Post by **DeputyDog** » Thu May 20, 2004 4:24 pm

Um, NS3 is a pvp world. THe problem is that at a point characters become immune to each other for the most part. All we did was give everyone weaknesses again and bam, half the people think its impossible:)

We knew when we started this that we wouldnt appeal to everyone that plays NS3. We also knew that we would attract a new group of players, so it does all balance out.

This is our vision.