Solars and everything else

[mining]

Soo... how about those solars?

I said earlier, I'll look at it later this week/month - but before the end of the year.

[Eldaquen]

My pvp experience is, you face a good cleric turner...Pure hellball to start the festivity, 1team mate dead, second round turn, other dead, third round have some variety, in case a non outsider start to bash the cleric, sanctuary, if not turn again...In all of case you start the PvP , with 2/3 team mate less than oponent whitout any posibility than watching...
Even with -8 AB, oponents tanks will KD/ bash the evil version...
And as have mentioned barg, PDK give +10 AB to ally (+ many others OP things) that nulify totaly the negative AB from evil turner...
Here the idea of some players is: evil turn is OP, but your too stupid to use it...The combo evil turner+bard curse+ DC instant killer is very nice on theory...but greater restore will screw that combo very easily...and just running from death effect, or a Mantle scroll will prevent that...at same time 2 tanks+1 good turner are way enought to clean all oponent outsider ...without any counter posibility than watching from the floor...
I'm looking the last weeks how players are building good turners, and how their presence is more and more important...In same time MA/SL guys are so stupids that they don't builds any OP evil turners...
Here a bet...make evil turners floor the oponents and suddenly you will see how many of us start to build one...
Right now i prefer to work on a non turned toon..

It's not just good clerics that do KD with turn but neutral planar turners as well. Do you really think being KD'd by planar turning is felt by SL/MA only? I have several TC builds that are planar touched that I know not to log in when I see known planar turning SL (Insurance IO) or AO clerics on. Also, I stopped building planar touched races because of SL's and AO's planar turning clerics. I adapted instead of complaining and asking for change.

When Hond stated "my expericence" I can only speculate he was referring to my planar turning cleric as the one his experience stems from, since during a recent encounter he and I got into a shouting match in game regarding hell ball. First off my cleric it is a planar turner which required 25 cha and wis, which was a big investment to achieve. Second, I invested 2 +4 tomes and 4 +2 tomes in that build so yes it should do better than other builds with no tomes at all. Yes planar turning causes KD, so what. Pure fighter token causes KD too, also a pure fighter with warlord's token and KD feat will chain KD a lot of builds without fail but that for some reason is OK!!! MA, SL, AO, RK all have pure arcane build options with pure hell ball. Earlier in that encounter a MA defender used a pure wizard to hell ball raiders repeatedly in MA's cradle, which my side didn't object to as we accept that is part of the game. If I recall correctly the issue at hand that night was I would run into SL raid party, cast hell ball, get killed and then (gasp) rest and ran back again. Not 1 raider died from the hellballing, but my cleric died 5 times. Why is that a problem? You were floored as you call it only, but I died 5 times!!! Shouldn't I have been the one to be upset because it was my blood that was spilled not yours.


By the way my planar turning cleric is buildable in SL so I don't understand how someone can say there are no melee options in SL when a build that helped spark the complaints is available in SL.

One last thing that night the NC defenders did not have a PDK which meant there was no PDK final stand.

I learned who the planar turners are, and when see them logged on then I log a different a non-planar touched build, or I accept the turning outcome.

[hond]

By the way my planar turning cleric is buildable in SL so I don't understand how someone can say there are no melee options in SL when a build that helped spark the complaints is available in SL.

I know we can build the same toon...but the effect of turn is different...you KD, while we make AB/AC/saves malus...here is the major point of the complain...

[hond]

It goes on forever... 1 on 1 is not designed around balance. Factions, faction allies, and unique prestiges are. If YOU cant build an assassin worth anything then dont play SL. I had assassins that could pop toons plenty easy in menzo.

You are blaming everyone and everything because YOU cant do something. It is ONLY YOUR fault if you are unable to compete. SL was here before you came around and it did fine back then!

Your assassin can pop a bad toon...any spotter with 110+, any toon with 55+ fort, and any player who know how work the sin effect, will nulify your so OP assassin...Assassin is just a trick toon, and on top of that, is only strengh is for use it in menzo, as defender...Try to raid with one of your assassins.

Here just an exemple:
It's just funny to see, how AO black guards are better than SL ones. SL is the evil faction of the server, all our toons are set evil automaticaly (so all exposed to smite), but i found sarcastical, that the best Black guard will be found out of SL.

SL monks are weakers than any others for race or/and Tokens (MA have no monks)
SL Heavy melee are weakers for tokens
SL divine AAs are weaker for class access/token
SL saves toons are weakers for class access/token
SL don't have access to stun/crit immunity shape (the only faction who can't)
SL have the worst unique prestige class
etc etc...
If i would participe in your TD event , be sure i will not make a SL toon, prolly a AO or NC...Even a DC 35 KD token can make a carnage...not 1d8 acid .
Up to you to think, it's my personal perception, but give me 1 build in SL superior to other builded outside...there is none...
As Alka said before, i'm proud to play in SL/MA, and don't be mistaken, we compite...but with others weapons

[Korr]

I love how you have a list of 6 builds that are weaker in SL... but NO evidence of such in any way!!!

Oh and if you missed before, when I talked about Nightmare raiding, there was a very effective high level assassin raiding NC a couple weeks ago or so. My 118 spot keen sensed kitty saw him just a couple times... and when he noticed I was after him he used his etherealness to get away.

So keep in mind there are others out there who (apparently) are better builders and players. Quit whining about things because you cant do it!

[Daral0085]

SL don't have access to stun/crit immunity shape (the only faction who can't)

Among your many other misconceptions, this is untrue. For one, you have access to stun-immune shapes in polymorph self (undead shape) and shapechange (golem shape). For another, NC does not have a stun/crit immune build apart from polymorph self rangers.

[mining]

Note: If tokens make you OP/UP - run around for 4 minutes and wear them off .

[Korr]

SL don't have access to stun/crit immunity shape (the only faction who can't)

Among your many other misconceptions, this is untrue. For one, you have access to stun-immune shapes in polymorph self (undead shape) and shapechange (golem shape). For another, NC does not have a stun/crit immune build apart from polymorph self rangers.

BUT BUT BUT YOU HAVE COT AND AND AND AND AND PALLY



IS NO FAIR BG NO GOOD, NOT BECAUSE IS EVIL BUT IS ARE BECAUSE IS BEING NOT AS GOOD. PALLY NEED NERF IS BETTER THAN BLACKGUARD!!!!

[Daral0085]

SL don't have access to stun/crit immunity shape (the only faction who can't)

Among your many other misconceptions, this is untrue. For one, you have access to stun-immune shapes in polymorph self (undead shape) and shapechange (golem shape). For another, NC does not have a stun/crit immune build apart from polymorph self rangers.

BUT BUT BUT YOU HAVE COT AND AND AND AND AND PALLY



IS NO FAIR BG NO GOOD, NOT BECAUSE IS EVIL BUT IS ARE BECAUSE IS BEING NOT AS GOOD. PALLY NEED NERF IS BETTER THAN BLACKGUARD!!!!

This is as good a reason as any to give CoT and paladin crit immunity. Mining, get on it.

For fairness, we can give BG crit immunity too. Sounds like a fair trade to me (hint, this is a joke). In all seriousness, it would be both glorious and terrible to have a 26 or 30 CoT running around with wrath DR and crit immunity. That would truly be the wrath of the gods incarnate.

[mining]

SL don't have access to stun/crit immunity shape (the only faction who can't)

Among your many other misconceptions, this is untrue. For one, you have access to stun-immune shapes in polymorph self (undead shape) and shapechange (golem shape). For another, NC does not have a stun/crit immune build apart from polymorph self rangers.

BUT BUT BUT YOU HAVE COT AND AND AND AND AND PALLY



IS NO FAIR BG NO GOOD, NOT BECAUSE IS EVIL BUT IS ARE BECAUSE IS BEING NOT AS GOOD. PALLY NEED NERF IS BETTER THAN BLACKGUARD!!!!

Not quite as good as mgrjebbo's effort a while back. Learn from him and you will truely be the master.

[Eldaquen]

From change log:
Turning Effects

Good/Neutral Casters

If the caster is Good or Neutral and belonging to any faction except the Mystral Ascendancy, enemies will be knocked back and knocked down for 2 round and take (Cha/2 + Turning Level/20) * 1d8 divine damage. If the caster has twice the hit dice as the enemy's hit dice/challenge rating, they are destroyed instantly instead. Once turned, a creature is immune to the effects of turning for 10 rounds.

Evil Casters

If the caster is Evil or Neutral and belonging to the Mystral Ascendancy, enemies will be drained of (Cha/2 + Turning Level/20) AB, AC, and all saves for 10 rounds. If the caster has twice the hit dice as the enemy's hit dice/challenge rating, they are dominated instead. Once turned, a creature is immune to the effects of turning for 10 rounds.
=======================================================================================================================
So just to be clear ... my cleric planar turner is able to KD an outsider toon for 2 rounds because it was made in TC (then that outsider is immune to turn for 10 rounds), but if I made that same cleric planar turner in SL then outsiders would be receive MINUS 9 to AC, AB, and saves for 10 rounds. You really think 2 rounds of KD once per 10 rounds is worse than -9 to AC, AB, and saves for 10 rounds (don't forget after 10 rounds cleric able to renew penalty)?

Minning please switch Good and Evil's effects!!! But leave neutral as is If you do then druid spells would have chance of overcoming rivals saves...Cleric, bard, and druid together in TC would rule!!! With cumulative penalties from clc evil turning and bard curse song nothing could save vs properly made druid. And give rogues to NC for good measure.

[Alkapwn]

Where do you guys keep getting this -9,-10 from, I have -7 and a-8 (with 4 books on it) maybe with +4 books you could push it too -10 but why. I Could use the books and make a toon with +20 ac/ab then no chamod/2 lol. And hey it would be effective against all toons not just outsiders. Knockdown is immobilizing which = dead toons, Way more effective then a supercharged curse because you can't run away plain and simple. I don't care either way , I can barely make any outsiders in SL anyway.

Had my Solar up to 59ab today might have had flanking bonus pretty close to 61 on my Balor.

[mining]

For reference, that's with a druid and a cleric buffing his Solar (61 was with flanking +2 for sure because they cap at 59 )

[hond]

So just to be clear ... my cleric planar turner is able to KD an outsider toon for 2 rounds because it was made in TC (then that outsider is immune to turn for 10 rounds), but if I made that same cleric planar turner in SL then outsiders would be receive MINUS 9 to AC, AB, and saves for 10 rounds. You really think 2 rounds of KD once per 10 rounds is worse than -9 to AC, AB, and saves for 10 rounds (don't forget after 10 rounds cleric able to renew penalty)?

2 rounds floored is a long long time man....but as evil turn can be used after 10 rounds, good too...so in 12 rounds your floored 4 rounds wich mean 30 % of time...round 1 turned and floored, round 2 on floor, round 3-10 immune to turn, round 11-12 floored again...doubt i'm steal alive after that...

Minning please switch Good and Evil's effects!!! But leave neutral as is If you do then druid spells would have chance of overcoming rivals saves...Cleric, bard, and druid together in TC would rule!!! With cumulative penalties from clc evil turning and bard curse song nothing could save vs properly made druid. And give rogues to NC for good measure.

Yes please , do it...

Note: If tokens make you OP/UP - run around for 4 minutes and wear them off .

If you have been evil turned , do the same
Just the right time to allow raiders take the relic and run out from SL, from 1 of the 100 posibility of exit ??

[hond]

Among your many other misconceptions, this is untrue. For one, you have access to stun-immune shapes in polymorph self (undead shape) and shapechange (golem shape). For another, NC does not have a stun/crit immune build apart from polymorph self rangers.

Paly/cot toons are immune to stun (not a real immunity but saves way over the top DC)...and in same time prolly immune to evil turn if a pdk is around...the minus/bonus make -7 ab/ac/save to prolly nothing...and 60+ saves -7/-8 and you will still immune to all the death instants spells...
Polymorph self and shapechange...wow, you just found a reason to not nerf stun as ALL the factions can use scroll of that powerfull spell (so all can be immune to stun)...Well done...now i have to work on a polymorpher toon who will resist, to your CoT stunners 65 AB 60 DC 25 divines damages toons...pretty easy task...thanks so much man...you found a very good solution...my undead vs your divine damagers, i'm sure i will rock...Or my golem 45 AC, against your 7 attacks/rounds + divines damages...I suggest you to go farm some ely heavyflail, to be sure to wipe me faster....If solution was so simple, why people are just complaining about stun again and again...Here come Daral and found the solution to your problems.