Bigby Nerfs

[Shhhhhhh]

Probably time to change the title of this topic? Bigby nerfs seems wrong now

[OpalimTeGolim]

yay for bigby9 rework. Looks awesome on paper now \o/

[neil420]

the ab is only rolling a 20

[mining]

I can personally guarantee it rolls [bigby 6 AB calc] vs discipline + d20

[Ryddwillow]

You can roll up amazing AC toons out of AO, and RK has a few very solid AC builds. I've hit a few DR builds for piddly amounts with bigs 6 too.

Ya, I know already, But the BIG picture is AO has no jobs. The bigbies are based on dexer ac and str toons get snuffed in this rework of whoever's idea of balance. The other bigbys were designed to effect all and you as a mage had to figure out what you needed in your arsenal. The only real factions here that benefit from this is MA and SL since they are mostly dexers and like I said the str builds get big nerf stick. You can paint it any way you want but it still a dexer world.

I've hit a few DR builds for piddly amounts with bigs 6 too

Really should fully test the product before you acknowledge it.

and the lvl 6 bigby's still knocks them over, enough time for a another enemy to sink it's weapon into you. Are you like a true mage builder or going off what you have seen? You played NC and TC forever and probably built a mage for crafting, And now you are the ultimate mage?


Sorry never seen you play as a mage much and your name was never spoken in fear, going off on exp is all.

[Ogami]

besides the pvp aspect of it, bigbies were good for farming: bigby9 could stop kutlach for a few seconds, if you had all the 6 feats, bigb7 could slow bronze wyrm and tiamat clerics, bigby6 was excellent to destroy the annoying wyrmlings. This is just an example.

[BlkMamba]

Played around with it last night for 2 to 3 hrs or soo
After shooting off dozens of lvl 9 bigs, i think 1 took effect, it looks nice but if we could do something to give it a shot at working
would be good as well.

ab of bigs+20 vs disp +20
with all the discpline gear around, this is pretty easy to beat, i didnt kd not 1 person last night
might think about takeing the roll check from the displine away? Not like its hard to get modified displine high enough to be all but immune anyhow

Will save vs Spells or be stunned: This happened once, only cuz the toon rolled a 1,
saves are easy to get up here really, add a helmet and cloak, with a few pts of intel even a cross class spellcraft easly gets +6 or 7
possibly take spellcraft out of the equation? Or give it a spellcaster boost?

Reason i'm posting is, i still caught myself goin back to not useing it, damage is minimal but thats fine if one of the other effects actually has a chance to
take effect, and as it sits, i dont even have a toon that would fail either of the above effects but once in a blue moon on a 1 roll

Give the spell a chance and think about it all i'm suggesting

Mamba...

[mining]

Re: Rydd
AO jobs are on the way. Old bigby wrecked anything with sub-70 AC almost every time.


Re: Ogami
I've found that bigby 5 and 6 are now incredibly effective in PVM, so I don't feel I've removed mages from PVM consideration.

Re: Mamba

Be aware that the discipline will wipe out most crossclass discipline builds, notably pure mages and clerics. Consider it as a mid 60s AB toon trying to KD another toon.

Also, your DC for bigby 9 can get to DC 48 vs will.

Finally, -hide/ms might let you get more spells off against a sneaky server-lag machine.

[BlkMamba]

yeah i know, but its useing modified discpline is why i was saying
even my pure mage has mid 60's discpline which at best your looking at mid 60's ab
so it would be 50/50 against a pure caster, and no chance at all with someone with maxed discpline

and a 48 will save with spellcraft my pure fighter can make over 75% of the time
which is why i made the post but all good, i'll just not use it
good try thou

well, i tried again, fact is these changes favor wiz/sd's way to much
to much for me to ignore, i'm gonna take a break from this game
not sure when i'll be back if at all

Peace out its been fun until lately
Mamba..

[Rufio]

As far as the will dc goes, it is the same as any other spell with a dc. If you removed spellcraft from it, spellcraft should be removed from the check of every spell. At least it does other stuff even if the save is made.

[BlkMamba]

As far as the will dc goes, it is the same as any other spell with a dc. If you removed spellcraft from it, spellcraft should be removed from the check of every spell. At least it does other stuff even if the save is made.

And there is the problem
it doesnt do anything really, the discpline check can be made by just about anyone, cross classed discpline is more than enough to keep the kd effect from happening
the spell DC isnt a save vs will or die, its a save vs will or be stunned for a brief period, which again, as it sits, wont happen but once in a blue moon
damage is under 100pts on avg, which isnt bad, as long as the kd or stun would actually work on occation
the stealth reduction yeah, its handy

problem with the 1st 2 effects is that they are entirely to easy to make the save for
my pathetic wiz/sd doesnt even fail the damn thing, and his displine is worse then my pure mages
this is getting old

[mining]

From my perspective from playing my pure mage in PVP and PVM, as well as from SyNaesthasia when I played that build, a DC 48 will save is awesome, and bigby 9 KD effect isn't too terrible... Just because your pure mage is from RK and gets awesome +7 discipline from jobs, and your fighter is from RK and gets +4 will (iirc) from the token doesn't mean everyone else will

Edit: i.e. my pure mage is sitting on 27? discipline. Something like that.
If I geared for discipline, I think I'd be able to pull... 57ish disc, so 75-25 KD chance.

[Rufio]

it isn't will save or die in a literal sense, but if you can't kill someone that is stunned for 3 rounds, you are doing something wrong.

[BlkMamba]

Since everyone else thinks its just fine, so be it
However, whatever you want, but i feel the spells rather undergunned
and these changes are rather bias toward specific builds
while leaving others completely wrecked
I'm not gonna argue this garbage anymore

enjoy
Mamba..

[Rufio]

I wasn't passing judgement on the new bigsby 9, I was just saying that there is no reason why the will save dc should be better than the will save dc on any other level 9 spell.

If you want my opinion, I do think the new bigsby is useful, it is just situationally useful. First of all, if you don't have a lot of caster levels everyone will make the disc check, and if you want int/cha based, everyone will make the will save, but all dc based spells are like that, it isn't anything new. For an unfocused caster, it isn't a worthless spell. It has uses as an anti-hipser, which is really nice, nothing else outside of an aasamir aura can drain somethings hide score that much, but it isn't something an unfocused caster will prepare unless there are hipsers around. For focused casters it becomes much more versatile. You get anti-hipser capabilites, a disc check that will take out any crossed classed disc builds, and a will save that challenges a lot of the low will melee types, so it can act as a solid counter to a variety of builds. Sure there are some builds that none of these things will work on, but that is life, and that is why you have a whole spellbook full of spells to pick from.

Also, what is being overlooked is the damage component of the spell. From my calculation, a level 40 caster will average 110 damage per hit. Sure that isn't as good as maxed igms in the same slot, and damage reduction can reduce the damage dealt, but you don't have to worry about spell resistance, spell immunity, or some cheeky fellow with an archmage robe reflecting it back at you. Druids would kill for a reliable damage spell like that. Hell, I'd even use that on my clerics as a level 9 damage spell even if the spell had no other features. Most dc based spells you have to be very selective about when to cast, just because you've wasted a half a round doing nothing to a build that always or almost always passes the check, but you can throw a bigsby 9 out, have them make every check, and STILL get results in the form of damage.