Your Armor discussion

[cRaZy8or5e]

Medium armor is for those big guys that want to take advantage of the minimal dex they may or may not have. Like Warren Sapp on dancing with the stars. I bet he'd wear medium armor . Give you just a little bit better reflex save. +4 reflexes vs +1 is quite a bit for a d20 die cast. Especially if you're close to makiing the save anyway.

Otherwise that's about the only benefit that I can see that medium armor provides. Actually that little bit of extra dex gives more AC against a touch attack as well, which actually is more relevant since the change to blindness came into effect. Especially for high dodge(divine shield) strength toons.

[Daltian]

logic all you want..its not called medium armor because it costs 3/4 the price of full plate.

I don't need real world logic, what I wan't is to know why does an armor that already has lower ac compared to heavy need to have less dr then heavy. Medium armor has all the problems that heavy does except it also needs user to have higher dex, it gives less ac. Just make mediums same as heavy and robes different. Medium armor is already least used one, not penalize it more.

[Amoenotep]

read through your basic players handbook...medium armor sucks no matter what you do

[mining]

read through your basic players handbook...medium armor sucks no matter what you do

Not if you enchant a collosal one with returning, make it out of lead and throw it for 110d6 damage.

[Amoenotep]

yeah...but come one, when am i going to get to do that on ns4

[Daltian]

read through your basic players handbook...medium armor sucks no matter what you do

I don't believe NS4 is supposed to reflect players handbook but is supposed to be fun and balanced. I am pretty sure a lot of spells have been changed from what players handbook says.
Also, if going by the book, heavy armor should make you move slower then medium one, unless you are small and smell like feet.

[Ryddwillow]

I don't believe NS4 is supposed to reflect players handbook but is supposed to be fun and balanced. I am pretty sure a lot of spells have been changed from what players handbook says.
Also, if going by the book, heavy armor should make you move slower then medium one, unless you are small and smell like feet.

Wow, needs someone to give him a boost, cause as a head DM no positive thoughts there. Beat your head with a hammer is what he saying and don't ask him again.

[Korr]

read through your basic players handbook...medium armor sucks no matter what you do

I think alot of how armor was based in PnP was determinate of time. Time to equip (full plate NEEDING someone else to help you put it on) and speed while using (it was a dwarf not all small folk that were immune to the speed reduction) that made a significant difference between alot of the armors. Why in pnp would you choose full plate if your DM went straight by the book (considering you didnt have a paige) other than a 1 less AC armor that YOU could put on yourself?!?! We all know your 'adventurer' friends' time is better spent fighting off the enemy and not strapping the back of your armor on. Not to mention it was something like 2-3 minutes WITH HELP in a rush could you even get full plate on, thats longer than most straight forward battles. I had a few characters that used chainmail for fun, even though they were dex based. Largely is was due to story, but hey being able to throw on a chain shirt in 1 round vs whole chainmail armor in 5 made a HUGE difference when you get attacked in your sleep!!!

From the mystical magical world where we all come from the sound is that not just dex based character are out of control. But more specifically the monks are out of control with the ability to push beyond the "standard" +9 additional AC from a tower shield. While this is true, isnt that part of the drawback of the monk?

A pure fighter that is dex based will stomp a pure monk that is dex based every time. In fact for the most part equal (mutually exclusive) mixes between other class/prc will do the same because fighters can capitalize more on the base AB. Monks can attempt to make this up and take things like ranger to try and nullify the loss of a shield (mainly the DR loss) by using TWF but thats still an easy fix with 1.69. ANY multi-damage weapon automatically breaks the armor DR, and monks cant do anything about it. Switching weapon damage types will break through monks current armor DR (armor cant be changed in combat). So while it seems I heard a couple times monk AC is the problem... doesnt it seems thats taking things out of context? A monk is SUPPOSED to have that AC, because he cant just swap out shields to change DRs and keep all the other monk bonuses. Add some arrows that do extra ranged damage: slashing/bludgeoning for the AAs or any fighter to use and see if the monk AC is still a problem. Because then when the monk gets hit it will hurt EVERY time. (Please dont try to pull out a monk/dwd that has epic DR 3 because thats a build not a class, and an epic DR monk is sacrificing AC to get DR as it is)

[Lokey]

Called armor is a pretty cheap +1(?) enchantment. Command word, it puts itself on you in a round. Still nowhere near as good as that shadow chain stuff though. (ETA: Dwarves and some other stuff ignores armor movement penalties too. Every rule has a bunch of exceptions in PNP.)

read through your basic players handbook...medium armor sucks no matter what you do

Not if you enchant a collosal one with returning, make it out of lead and throw it for 110d6 damage.

+1 Funny (Don't think you can put returning on armor, but there's a stance or maneuver that does the same thing.)

[Daltian]

(it was a dwarf not all small folk that were immune to the speed reduction)

Yes, but only dwarfs smell like feet.

[emil392]

Look, I'm all for giving Heavy armor a higher damage reduction and immunity. That is exactly what it's there for.

And I could maybe see some robes woven with such high quality that they are pierce resistant.

But if shields and the ability to wield them are in question at all, anyone with the +8 str gloves available here should be able to wield any type of shield like it was a stirofoam plate. Whoever brought up this "dexers shouldn't be able to use a tower shield" thing is just waaaaaaaaay off the mark.

I can hear Tep dming a pnp campaign right now "I don't care if you have 54 STR and can benchpress an Ancient dragon, you can't wield a tower shield" LOL!

If you really, really, want to adhere to pnp rules, maybe the head DM who claims he's got the pnp rules down should then make an arguement that Tower shields of any kind should give a non-magical thus undispellable concealement bonus. I can't tell you how many time I've ducked behind my tower shield in pnp to avoid an incoming onslaught of arrow are other ranged weapons.

So there's your answer, thread over. Plate gets better DR/DI, medium/light does and always will suck, and tower shields should give concealment. Medium shields should give concealemnt to smaller races.

Long story short, all you devs need to do is look at light/robe armors and lower the DR/DI, and look at the Heavy armor and up the DR/DI. It's an easy task.

I've added to the PWnD wiki every single piece of gear in the game (weapons/armor/head/neck/boots/belts/ammies/rings/weapons/planar maps/overland maps/others) and it only took ~6hours. You guys focus on just the armors and it should take less than 2 hours easy.

As a side note completely unrelated to this topic, the PWnD site has more readily available up to date information than the entire ns4 website. I feel bad for everyone else, they're at such a disadvantage. Time to start getting your stuff together, or be in for another few years of fail.

Hell, we have a PWnD server that blows away the NS4 test server. I'll take credit for that. It's my baby. Before we make a build, we log in the test server with every NS4 item available to us, including books the LETO you stats and LETOd subrace bonuses (as another aside, our PWnD subrace engine blows the NS4 one of the water and lets it fall back down again so we can drown it and laugh).

Either way, do what you want, and we'll keep pwning. I'm sure you're all real glad you made the respawn time restrictions what they are now that way keep the relics in RK. I guess y9ou get what you wish for

I apologize ahead of time for the post only being half on topic and half not. If you have a problem with that, log into our Ventrilo and I'm sure we'll straighten you out.

[Daltian]

Either way, do what you want, and we'll keep pwning. I'm sure you're all real glad you made the respawn time restrictions what they are now that way keep the relics in RK. I guess y9ou get what you wish for .

Yea right, except lately if we don't have relics I just go to SL, don't even check the diviners. Says a lot about where relics are most of the time.

[Tsavong]

I've added to the PWnD wiki every single piece of gear in the game (weapons/armor/head/neck/boots/belts/ammies/rings/weapons/planar maps/overland maps/others) and it only took ~6hours. You guys focus on just the armors and it should take less than 2 hours easy.

As a side note completely unrelated to this topic, the PWnD site has more readily available up to date information than the entire ns4 website. I feel bad for everyone else, they're at such a disadvantage. Time to start getting your stuff together, or be in for another few years of fail.

The NS4 wiki is a player run thing it is up to us players (and I include you and PWND in this) to up date it. But if you don't feel like shearing what you find that's up to you guys.

[Daltian]

Look, I'm all for giving Heavy armor a higher damage reduction and immunity. That is exactly what it's there for.

And I could maybe see some robes woven with such high quality that they are pierce resistant.

But if shields and the ability to wield them are in question at all, anyone with the +8 str gloves available here should be able to wield any type of shield like it was a stirofoam plate. Whoever brought up this "dexers shouldn't be able to use a tower shield" thing is just waaaaaaaaay off the mark.

I can hear Tep dming a pnp campaign right now "I don't care if you have 54 STR and can benchpress an Ancient dragon, you can't wield a tower shield" LOL!

If you really, really, want to adhere to pnp rules, maybe the head DM who claims he's got the pnp rules down should then make an arguement that Tower shields of any kind should give a non-magical thus undispellable concealement bonus. I can't tell you how many time I've ducked behind my tower shield in pnp to avoid an incoming onslaught of arrow are other ranged weapons.

So there's your answer, thread over. Plate gets better DR/DI, medium/light does and always will suck, and tower shields should give concealment. Medium shields should give concealemnt to smaller races.

Long story short, all you devs need to do is look at light/robe armors and lower the DR/DI, and look at the Heavy armor and up the DR/DI. It's an easy task.

I've added to the PWnD wiki every single piece of gear in the game (weapons/armor/head/neck/boots/belts/ammies/rings/weapons/planar maps/overland maps/others) and it only took ~6hours. You guys focus on just the armors and it should take less than 2 hours easy.

As a side note completely unrelated to this topic, the PWnD site has more readily available up to date information than the entire ns4 website. I feel bad for everyone else, they're at such a disadvantage. Time to start getting your stuff together, or be in for another few years of fail.

Hell, we have a PWnD server that blows away the NS4 test server. I'll take credit for that. It's my baby. Before we make a build, we log in the test server with every NS4 item available to us, including books the LETO you stats and LETOd subrace bonuses (as another aside, our PWnD subrace engine blows the NS4 one of the water and lets it fall back down again so we can drown it and laugh).

Either way, do what you want, and we'll keep pwning. I'm sure you're all real glad you made the respawn time restrictions what they are now that way keep the relics in RK. I guess y9ou get what you wish for

I apologize ahead of time for the post only being half on topic and half not. If you have a problem with that, log into our Ventrilo and I'm sure we'll straighten you out.

Kudos to you for your people skills and community spirit!

BTW, since I was updating NS4 wiki lately I asked a lot of PWnD players to give me stats on RDD lvl 30 shape and I got no answer. Now I understand why. Silly me for trying to help AO newbs with info on major ability of their PrC, what was I thinking.

[Amoenotep]

emil, when you figure out how to make the bio engine better we'll let you tell us how to allow specific concealment bonuses on shields for specific races. we'll also let you rewrite all the code in ns4 to make it so awesompwndness. we know your better than us, we just don't like to admit it yet.

for your questions on shields, most of your dex builds don't even get the shield feat for free....hows that for pnp? bioware gave everyone the shield feat.

when you join the staff i'll let you in on all the secrets you think you know and alot you never knew existed. that'll probably be the time you quit playing because your perspective of the world would be crushed.

also...the original slaves never quit because of MD, they just decided to move on from this game.