I'm back.

[LinuxPup]

Ok the revenge business is getting old... as a former M.D. myself I can assure you most, if not all the players you want revenge on are either gone or became NS4 developers.

Chill out already... you have no-one to take revenge on (as has already been said)... either enjoy the game or leave.

[Bargeld]

If you're yearnin' for learnin'

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Flat-foot

[Fezz]

LOL what did i tell ya ?

The guild is gone you don't want M.D. no more they all died in the awesomely good fire.

BTW thier still here don't be fooled its all a plot some of the ok ones are actually using the same account names, the others - well thier hiding. LOL

[Ade]

37 now.

Cleared HoD today for the first time with a good group. Thanks guys.

I still hate this but that was actually kinda fun.

And maybe I'm not doing this just because of MD. I wanted to show that even a person of average intelligence could "get good" at this complicated game. I was bitterly disappointed with how my first character turned out, and I wanted to show that I could make a good one.

Every game that I ever picked up after NWN I excelled at, but this bitter thought always arose in my mind, "Yeah, you're good at this game, but you failed at NWN, and NWN is harder than this game. Are you going to settle for mastering this pansy game while you allow the monster of all RPGs to best you?" And, since this is supposedly the most difficult server (which I think is no accident that it was the first one I chose when I started so long ago), it makes sense that I have to beat this unfair, unforgiving system of my own volition. My personal image of myself as a gamer is at stake.

I'm sure none of you can clear Life Force for the NES without dying or beat Perfect Dark 64 on Perfect Agent, but I wanted to show that a regular gamer like me could hang with the "big dogs" who already know how DnD works and who have a firm grasp on its ridiculously complicated (and often poorly worded) rules. (BTW, the explanation for "flat-footedness" says nothing about how being surrounded by creatures nullifies your dodge AC, and there's no way an ordinary person could make this prediction since the character continues to perform the dodge animation even when surrounded, and it isn't listed anywhere in the combat log.)

Yeah, I might not be as good as some of you, but this is my 2nd online character ever in NWN, and I'm damn proud of him. And I didn't consult a book or ask for help with this build. I just thought it out and did it by myself.

To everyone that I have been at odds with while in groups, my irritable nature comes from my desire to get this task done as quickly as possible. I apologize if I was ever reckless or insubordinate. These are personal problems that I may never be able to curb.

In short...this game kicks your butt over and over and doesn't explain why it happened, so there's no way to get better other than by randomly guessing. Some of us don't have years to do this, so it's frustrating.

Onward to 40, and to see if some tincture of enjoyment reveals itself after the summit has been reached...

[Bargeld]

BTW, the explanation for "flat-footedness" says nothing about how being surrounded by creatures nullifies your dodge AC, and there's no way an ordinary person could make this prediction since the character continues to perform the dodge animation even when surrounded, and it isn't listed anywhere in the combat log.

That's why I posted that link... I don't believe that you lose all of your dodge AC by being flanked:
http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Flank
I'm thinking that they get +2 and you get dodge FEAT +1 AC vs only your current attacker. Technically you 'lose' your dodge FEAT ac.

3 ac difference overall.

[Lorkar]

........

In short...this game kicks your butt over and over and doesn't explain why it happened, so there's no way to get better other than by randomly guessing. Some of us don't have years to do this, so it's frustrating.

Now just substitute the word game for the word life. Makes the game more understandable, at least to me. It is all in the attitude in which you approach the game or life which will determine your level of success.

[Gornickthy]

Onward to 40, and to see if some tincture of enjoyment reveals itself after the summit has been reached...

I think there is real enjoyment in the life at 40th level. Some of the higher planar areas are so much fun that xp does not matter... its about exploring and getting new gear. I have found that lvl 37-40 are the most fun in my opinion as long as you continue to group with good people in hard areas. And of course the PvP is top notch too.

[VagaStorm]

BTW, the explanation for "flat-footedness" says nothing about how being surrounded by creatures nullifies your dodge AC, and there's no way an ordinary person could make this prediction since the character continues to perform the dodge animation even when surrounded, and it isn't listed anywhere in the combat log.

That's why I posted that link... I don't believe that you lose all of your dodge AC by being flanked:
http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Flank
I'm thinking that they get +2 and you get dodge FEAT +1 AC vs only your current attacker. Technically you 'lose' your dodge FEAT ac.

3 ac difference overall.

In no way do you auto loose any ac at all by beeing surounded. How ever, they do flank you http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Flank which will give em +2 to ab, hence they hitt you a bit more.

[Korr]

Yes but if you suddenly lose focus in combat and stop attacking you become flat-footed to ALOT of monsters.

[Lokey]

Flat foot = lose dex and dodge ac when you don't have a current action and don't have uncanny reflex 1 or 2 while not ending on the bugged one to an equal or lower hitdie pc/npc. There's situations where your ac just gets punked, most of them engine bugs.

By the way:
Winning NS = having fun.
Losing = not having fun.

[Ace-of-Spades]

And maybe I'm not doing this just because of MD. I wanted to show that even a person of average intelligence could "get good" at this complicated game. I was bitterly disappointed with how my first character turned out, and I wanted to show that I could make a good one.

Every game that I ever picked up after NWN I excelled at, but this bitter thought always arose in my mind, "Yeah, you're good at this game, but you failed at NWN, and NWN is harder than this game. Are you going to settle for mastering this pansy game while you allow the monster of all RPGs to best you?" And, since this is supposedly the most difficult server (which I think is no accident that it was the first one I chose when I started so long ago), it makes sense that I have to beat this unfair, unforgiving system of my own volition. My personal image of myself as a gamer is at stake.

I'm sure none of you can clear Life Force for the NES without dying or beat Perfect Dark 64 on Perfect Agent, but I wanted to show that a regular gamer like me could hang with the "big dogs" who already know how DnD works and who have a firm grasp on its ridiculously complicated (and often poorly worded) rules. (BTW, the explanation for "flat-footedness" says nothing about how being surrounded by creatures nullifies your dodge AC, and there's no way an ordinary person could make this prediction since the character continues to perform the dodge animation even when surrounded, and it isn't listed anywhere in the combat log.)

In short...this game kicks your butt over and over and doesn't explain why it happened, so there's no way to get better other than by randomly guessing. Some of us don't have years to do this, so it's frustrating.

I honestly think you are making this game out to be far more difficult and complicated than it actually is. Don't give it so much credit. NWN is coming up on being 6 years old friend. There are plenty of "monster" RPGs that have came out since this game. On top of that, this game was not really designed to be a PvP type RPG game like Diablo, or so many others after it. In fact, D&D itself was never meant to be a PvP game, it was for party adventures against Dungeon Master created obstacles (monsters). This server, in fact, any PvP type NWN server is just a complete perversion of the D&D rules. Why else do all the changes have to be made for balance? Am I saying I don't like that? Hell no, don't get me wrong. I think the genius of NWN players has taken this game far beyond what anyone thought it could be in it's infancy.

And on a final note, I do not agree that NS4 is the most difficult server on NWN. Not that I have experienced much PvP here yet, but what I've read, heard and seen so far...it is possibly ONE of the most difficult PvP NWN servers. However, take this as example, before I came to this server a few weeks ago, I've been playing on a low-magic Roleplaying server for 4 years. In that time, I've gotten one character to level 9, and a second character to level 8. The highest character ever on that server was level 17. Now that my friend, is hardcore. When it takes RL months and months to level, and then one death takes you back 1.5 levels, yeah....the frustration is immense, but the challenge is real and addicting. Maybe that's why I take a break from it and come to servers like this where I can relax and throw my character at red glowing objects and click them to death.

[disastro]

to clarify: uncanny only gets you back your dex ac when flatfooted. you still lose dodge and tumble ac, even with uncanny.

dnd 3.5 IS insanely complicated. it's a lot easier to understand when you take the time to read through the entire pen and paper Player's Guide and Dungeon Master's Guide. then you have maybe 80% of what you need to know for neverwinter nights.. all you need to do then is read up on how nwn deviates from those basic rules.

so it does not seem too complicated to a veteran of the pen/paper games or to those who grew up playing the gold box computer editions. (pool of radiance ftw! planescape: torment!!)

however its become overcomplicated enough that d&d 4th edition was explicitly, uh, "streamlined" to expressly address the concerns you raise.

4th edition neverwinter nights (if it ever happens) will be quite an interesting thing to see.

[Korr]

why make a NWN 4th edition? D&D 4th edition is designed to BE just that!!!

[frogofpeace]

It's not complicated - you just have to learn the pattern, just like Galaga, or Spyhunter. Would you people stop improvising and start doing the same things over and over like you're supposed to? You're messing me up ...

[Ade]

In my absence I raised a Paladin to Level 70 on WoW and had him fully epic'ed out in a matter of months, and yes, the game was too generic and did not pose enough challenge.

That is why I felt compelled to test my skills on this server. WoW really doesn't have the rule complexity that NWN does; it tries to make up for the lack of complexity by requiring that 25 to 40 people raid at a time, but really a solid game engine like NWN would be preferable.

I love the complexity of this game but I hate trying to learn it. I have this stigma in my mind that DnD players are all people who read books all day and all scored a 36 on their ACT, so how dare an ordinary person like me try to beat them? Maybe that's why I feel so indignant when I am corrected by another player...ordinary people hate being corrected by geniuses.

I know this is my problem. I know you're probably all regular people just like me. Maybe I should have just played the old pen and paper games, but my parents thought they were evil so I never got to when I was a kid...(religious parents)

I feel that conquering this sort of game will help me round out more as a gamer, figuratively and literally. And yes, there may be "hardcore" servers where a character is knocked back 1.5 levels for a death, but I doubt any of the servers have individual random encounters that are as difficult as this one, consequences of failure aside.

Case in point: yesterday I set foot into the negative energy plane with a party of 9 players, all whom were quite experienced. According to them, we got the "worst entrance spawn possible" and, despite our preparedness, got completely annihilated. Was humbling.