More nerfing on undead Risen Lord

[Fezz]

-Nerfed Shifter Risen Lord form... used to have 50% pierce/slash immunity. Dropped it to 25% pierce/slash immunity and added 25% bludge vulnerability, 50% fire/divine vulnerability. Also dropped AC and AB, and reduced damage reduction from +20/10 damage reduction to +20/5.

The above is taken from the change log jan 18 2008. When you look at that - its a massive nerf, and fair enough it needed some changes.

I logged in today to discover you have now gone even further with the nerf. My AC before today was 76 fully buffed. It is now 68. The damage on the Sythe is also nerfed down to 1d8 neg.

I just dont see why the risen lord needed even more nerfing - its essentially destroyed it. Remember here is a shape that CAN NOT heal itself at all - has 50% fire and divine vulnerability and went down to searing lights and similar spells in like 5 seconds. Add to that the fact it was turnable.

Can you now remove the 1st lot of nerf's at all ? get rid of the divine and fire vulnerability and put the slash and pierce back up or something.

Anyways, thought i would post my thoughts because i really wasted my time getting to 38 on this one it kinda makes me mad thinking about it.

[LinuxPup]

Was too powerful... yeah we dropped the AC and damage on it... the damage is essentially what a level 30-40 scythe would get, instead of a crazy overpowered scythe.

And 76 AC *with* immunity to death magic, sneaks, crits, fear, mind effects, level/abil drain... are you kidding me? I assumed most shifter players would negate the fire vulnerability easy enough. Even with nerfs, they're still very powerful... especially with the removal of some of these immunities from very popular spells. If you're in danger of being turned, use a different form. Shifters are all about adapting to their enemies.

[Daltian]

Thing is Risen Lord really was super awesome, but that's because there was wipe and people still weren't equipped well and risen lord had it all as it was. Truth is also that I killed few AO's with it more then once, but can you say risen lord is overpowered because barb cant kill it while its being held? You could if the same barb wasn't trying to kill me with scythe while I was having 50% immune slash/pierce and 20/- to both. Had he changed to bulgeoning I would be dead in one round. Or a cleric that keep casting WoF on me and hopes I'll disapear? If He used 2x searing light I would be dead.

And I tried not to tall my enemies how to kill me. But it seams I need to educate them in order to explain the nerf wasn't really needed. You should have at least waited a bit to see how we deal vs. equipped people.

[Korr]

And I talked to a shifter today who was saying he used to Solo in DWP in Risen Lord form... but thats not overpowered at all is it? Show me a barbar that would have lasted as long, or a cleric. Take some Give some

[mgrjebbo]

Its your fault Fezz. I recommend you get rid of that da*n time stopping horse next time someone tells you to.

[Daltian]

And I talked to a shifter today who was saying he used to Solo in DWP in Risen Lord form... but thats not overpowered at all is it? Show me a barbar that would have lasted as long, or a cleric. Take some Give some

It was me. And I couldn't solo DWP. I could solo two types of mobs there. And that can still be done. Being crit immune and all gear on you slashing, you can solo slashing mob. Big deal!! Only HIPSers can really solo large parts of DWP. So please don't give exsample of something that has nothing to do with it. BTW, dwarven defender could also do it, they can get 100% to type of damage they choose. Nerf them!!

[Fezz]

The thing is linux shifters are at there best when you specialize in 1 shape, most people know this. I chose to do that with risen lord, so i had 19 wis and everything and i mean everything went into dex because it uses your dex.

Hence the AC and the blinding speed. When making a rakasha I specialise in CON because it gets its own str and dex and i go the epic DR path. The list goes on. Its not as easy as saying change shape and like XXerox said it was nerfed enough.

The thing is every build should and does have atleast 1 weakness - melee was not it for the risen lord, it is clearly in the Cleric that the risen lord was turned into an easy beat - ask nebrilith - that toon owned me almost exclusively with WOF and maxed searing lights. Wizards did awesome as well maxed igms did the trick. Oh and lets not forget a lot of peoples pain in the neck the hipsers - have trouble seeing them big time.

So you see the weakness was truly there already - it didnt need anymore. so Whats going to happen now if i go build a construct shape with blinding speed and massive dex ? will it get nerfed as well - its immune to sneaks crits Knock down lvl 6 and lower spells etc ?

[Shhhhhhh]

I think thats the main problem of playing a shifter, you make such a specialized character that relies mostly or solely on 1 shape, then when that shape gets changed the char becomes useless. Changes in shape stats give a far bigger effect than general class or spell changes.

[cRaZy8or5e]

The thing is linux shifters are at there best when you specialize in 1 shape, most people know this. I chose to do that with risen lord, so i had 19 wis and everything and i mean everything went into dex because it uses your dex.

Hence the AC and the blinding speed. When making a rakasha I specialise in CON because it gets its own str and dex and i go the epic DR path. The list goes on. Its not as easy as saying change shape and like XXerox said it was nerfed enough.

The thing is every build should and does have atleast 1 weakness - melee was not it for the risen lord, it is clearly in the Cleric that the risen lord was turned into an easy beat - ask nebrilith - that toon owned me almost exclusively with WOF and maxed searing lights. Wizards did awesome as well maxed igms did the trick. Oh and lets not forget a lot of peoples pain in the neck the hipsers - have trouble seeing them big time.

So you see the weakness was truly there already - it didnt need anymore. so Whats going to happen now if i go build a construct shape with blinding speed and massive dex ? will it get nerfed as well - its immune to sneaks crits Knock down lvl 6 and lower spells etc ?

Quoted for truth. No one even discussed their lower AB, or vulnerability to heal spells.

[Fezz]

Yes lol I forgot the vulnerability to heals, i got hit for massive damage regularly raiding LA. I think it was sir hert hns that used his lay on hands on me. Sir HURT! and of course its a touch attack so most of my AC counts for nothin too.