Latest shifter change

[Daltian]

Are you sure you uploaded the changes to the server? I see no change in my kobold commando shape!

[Anelad]

There's a +6 strength bonus to dragon shape, which makes my empowered bull's strength totally useless....

[Fatzo]

mmmmmm ... sounds to me like this fits into another 'if it aint broke dont fix it' category.... but..... well nevermind

i will have to log on to see what changes (nerfs) occured to my dragon.....

based off of the (now locked) thread... if AC took that much of a hit - that would be unfortunate... but as i said the new , second round of changes have yet to be revealed here... i hope ye fellas have not had your characters rendered completly worthless and have to start from scratch..

and if i may elaborate slightly...tis one reason why other "mmo's" may be more attractive from a simple viewpoint --- if a character feature is nerfed or changed to result in an undesirable characteristic for the player -- one can easily change the base stats (Talents , or Deeds in the case of WOW or LOTRO for example) but our Feats here in NWN are unchangable (which we already know)

--- yeas i know its D&D based so of course it would be totally "against the grain" to allow people to suddenly re-roll their characters without having to level...... so i hope the people who have made shifters have not have their builds rendered worthless --- and are forced to re-roll ..... well if you have alot of free time to reroll then great ! but .....not everyone has that luxury

im sure it will turn out more balanced tho in the end....

[Tsavong]

I just testing my lvl 30 pure druid dragon I had a bace strength of 50 +6 that it comes with I was able to get it with my buffs to get it up to 62 so buffs don't do nothing and it had a ac of 66 which is less than it had before the changes but more than it had before the shifter crash server fix changes were put in so all in all my dragon has come out of the whole fix the crash bug then quite well I think

oh and the character sheet lies if you look at the combat log your ab is higher then is said on the sheet

[Daltian]

Will kobold be tweaked or remains like this? I hope it will ..... fingers crossed.


*edited bad grammar mistake*

[Bloodstone]

I logged on my pure druids, and I didn't see anything changed. Both strength and dexterity were the same as before. Where neg, pos, and especially DWP were tuff before for pure druids using Dragonshape, it'll be next to impossible now. The only thing the pure druid class will be good for now is crafting, so I must tip my hat to the powers that be for killing two classes instead of just one.

mmmmmm ... sounds to me like this fits into another 'if it aint broke dont fix it' category.... but..... well nevermind

Well put

[Fatzo]

. The only thing the pure druid class will be good for now is crafting, so I must tip my hat to the powers that be for killing two classes instead of just one.

mmmmmm ... sounds to me like this fits into another 'if it aint broke dont fix it' category.... but..... well nevermind

Well put

glad i am not the only one who sees things clearly....

well sometimes theres a hazy fog of spam floating in the air in front of me in a gas form so i cant alway see well

have druids now become a worthless class ?

*places druids on the shelf next to harper scouts*

[cluckster]

I would like to add my two cents in on the subject. I do understand that the merging of script messed up some things regarding stats and so forth. Some people have stated that Druid and Shifter were overpowered. There are a lot of disadvantages with shifters.

• While shifted you can’t change weapons
• While shifted you can’t use spells, scrolls, rods, heal kits, properties of items like rings of healing, and other things. The end result is fight or use potions.
• Must de-shift to use spell or other item then re-shift, this requires at least 3 rounds
• Shifters while de-shifted normally don’t have high AC or AB and can be killed quickly
• The Str, Dex, and Con on your base toon is changed to a set number for the shifter shape. Increasing any of the 3 stats on base form doesn’t really do a lot of good.
• If a shifter is only druid or shifter the max number of attacks is 3.
• Some shapes specials don’t stack with other things for example the Kobold sneak attack overrides sneak attack from Rogue so the most you will ever end up with is 5d6.
• Some shapes have specials that don’t affect anyone in PvP due to evasion or resistance.
• Gloves not merging, weapon focus, improved crit, and other feets not working due to creature weapons or base weapon not available.
• I’m sure there are more disadvantages and advantages that I can’t think of at the moment.

With the last modification to the shifter and druid class some shapes was reduced in AC a lot, Epic Minotaur was reduced by 15 AC, the Epic Drow Warrior was reduced 12 AC, and the Epic Kobold was reduced by 18 AC, the epic shapes for the Drow and Kobold you need 17 levels of shifter before that you have regular shapes, all of the Epic shapes should be worth taking the extra levels. In past post it was said that the change on the Kobold was to make it the same as other SDs. A lot of shapes including the Kobold will never have the same specials as other classes so the shifter will never be any good without some good defensive ability. Another thing that was said as well is the on hit abilities are frowned apon but several weapons have an on hit ability. Also on the last change some shapes where modified but some not. So was the shapes modified the only ones or is the other shapes getting modified later?

[Amoenotep]

its a work in progress...shifters offer so many new directions and dynamics to a char that the only limit to its uses is your imagination+ the game engine.

bear with us as we try to rebalance a class that is the absolute most difficult to balance.

[cluckster]

I agree with you Amoenotep. Balancing of the druid/shifter classes will take some time due to 30 or so different shapes plus epic versions of some. I like the shifter classes, I've planned on making some builds specialized for certain forms, and hope they are balanced soon so I can continue on the builds.

[Malik]

The staff is defiantly looking into shifters, I wouldn't worry too much, we will make sure they are not rendered useless.

[LinuxPup]

Absolutely... what Malik said.

[-BannyD-]

in other servers, the only useful shapes were kobold, risen lord, dragonshape, and raksasha. vampire slightly useful.

without high AC, dragonshape and raksasha are useless. without either high AC or high hide/ms, kobold is useless. uhh...risen lord is pretty useful in all circumstances as long as its not super nerfed heh.

none of the other shapes were ever really useful. i used to play a shifter with -all- the shapes on another server, and the ones most often used were Risen Lord and Raksasha. Medusa/Basilisk was as well for the super bosses like a 100ac 800crit scyther.... (autofail = permastoned boss). Trying to make the other ones work was pretty much a waste of time.

if you kill these shapes though, you completely kill the class. Raksasha has always been useless on this server as you cant play it with monk, so no AC....be careful what you do to the others.

IMO, these are the types of stats each of the above classes should have if built right and dedicated to the class...

Kobold: 100hide/ms and 65AC
Risen Lord: 55-60AB, no AC, 50%pierce/slash immune, 25% bludge vulnerability
Dragonshape: 75AC, 60-65AB (they do little damage)
Raksasha: 75AC, no AB
Iron Golem (not listed above but popularish): 60AB, 60AC (i dunno about immune/vulnerabilities)

these are just what I think they should have solo but with best gear/buffs they can give themselves. If i was a dev I would aim for an average build to have slightly less than these values...dont want much more than those or else they become very very powerful.

[Bloodstone]

Pure druid and shifter dragons received a further adjustment. Several shifter forms did as well.

I made this strictly on behalf of the pure druid and dragonshape.

After seeing this announcement I logged on one of my pure druids, and from what I seen, I think it was time to give the Dev's a little history lesson. And if they think I'm wrong, I'm sure a few other pure druid builders will step forward letting them know I'm not.
The Str and AC stats are from my lorekeeper pure druid build Shado using Dragonshape. I won't show the AB stats because they differ from the character sheet and the combat log
Stats prior to revamp to stop the crashes: Str 71, AC 66 to 67
Stats after the revamp to stop the crashes: Str 71, AC 73 to 74
Stats after Linuxpup's May 16, 2008 announcement: Str 61, AC 65 to 66
Stats after Apokriphos's May 27, 2008 announcement: Str 65 to 66, AC 65 to 66
Anyone looking at those will see that the stats were better before the 1st revamp, than what they are now. If anyone asks me how I can remember what my pure druid's dragonshape Str and AC stats were that far back? Then my response is simple, "know your build."
For the life of me can't understand the how "the power's that be" can think a pure druid using dragonform with a AC in the mid to high 70's is to uber, especially if they took into account all the disadvantages it receive. I tried to explain this a Dev once, and the Dev's response was "not every toon can get over 1000 hps like a pure druid using dragonshape can." I also learned from the same Dev that a matchup between a pure barb and a pure druid using dragonform took place, and the pure druid using dragonshape won, which the Dev's eye's made it to uber. Well, me being me, I did the same test. I matched my pure druid Thunderstone against Willow's pure barb, and after a 2 min fight, Willow's pure barb won, with his barb only showing badly damaged. Now if someone wants to say Willow creates bad builds.... Well we won't go there.
Anyways, I've matched my pure druid builds using dragonshape against some of the best builds on the prime server, and I have yet to see one that I've been able uber over.
Now I'm fully expecting to see smart a** comments being made, as well as Dev's and DM's saying they've made tests of their own, with their results showing that a pure druid in dragonform was to uber with the previous adjustments. To the latter I can only say this, creating a 40th toon with the best gear on the server used once or twice doesn't make for a fair test. If you wanna make it a fair test, place one of those builds with it's summons in the arena Vs a umber hulk, and one of those drider mages from DWP so everyone to see. And I'll bet ya a set of white robes, and a white scythe that the umber hulk and the drider mage will win.

[LinuxPup]

The battle took 2 minutes? And you had took a pure barb down to badly damaged? Sounds balanced to me

Also, how many str-based characters can get AC into the high 70s? The fact is, dragons are really powerful, and I'd hope they'd still lose to a fighter or barb (of same level) since fighting is their speciality... while a dragon is meant to be powerful (and is), so is a fighter.

Also, don't forget... dragons do slash/pierce damage, which is gonna rock even more in 1.69.