Aasimar light broken?

[Bloodstone]

Seems like everyone is trying to level the playing field Vs the sneaky SD's, so I'll throw my 2 cents into it. They may seem a bit extreme, but their no worse than any of the others I've read when it comes to this subject. Maybe they should start allowing the druid's to take 5 level of another class, and still be able retain their dragonshape feat. It doesn't have to be monk. I'd enjoy being able to create a cheese Hips'er 35 druid/5 SD *I can see you, but can you see me* Dragon, or a 35 druid/5 fighter *100+ there goes your rumble token Discipline, 4 atk per round* Dragon, etc. Heck, I'd even enjoy something simple like a token that'll let a druid in dragonshape to switch into one of those smaller flying dragons, then switch back just to get past doorways. Give a druid either of those suggestions, and you'll quickly see the playing field equal out vs those sneaky SD's.

[disastro]

to be honest i think its a little sad that we are routinely running into game engine skill caps due to items and effects. gives ya that warm 'uber toon feel' you know you've been missing.

simple solution: remove all epic rings from the mod.

it also might help if racial bonuses for ns races were more in line with stock d&d.. a race that gets a bonus to a skill generally gets a +2 or +4 (for example elves -> spot = +2. halfling small stature -> +4 to hide i believe).

+30 / -30 style buffs seem out of proportion to just about everything else in the game.

[disastro]

...dragonshape stuff...

for what it's worth i think bioware true seeing on dragons (or anywhere) is against the spirit of the true seeing changes in the first place. id rather have no bioware true seeing anywhere, so that your hiders can always rely on their skill if they are good enough. ideally there'd also be a reduction in the max sneak skill you can get, so its skill vs skill calibrated so you dont have to be a trick 'wisdom based bard' (try THAT without monk!) in order to counter.

[Sparky]

Well, I believe the reasoning behind Dragon's still retaining Bioware true seeing is I think Pen and Paper Dragons have an ability called tremorsense. Tremorsense could probably best be described as a never fail listen skill,except you're listening with all parts of your body, not just your ears (Feeling vibrations in the ground and what not). I hope that helps.

On the flip side, there's a lot of discussion behind the scenes amongst DM's conerning all types of balance. Please have patience, as we try to come to a general consensus amongst ourselves before acting and getting the Devs involved, who may be working on other aspects of the module at the time.

[disastro]

On the flip side, there's a lot of discussion behind the scenes amongst DM's conerning all types of balance. Please have patience, as we try to come to a general consensus amongst ourselves before acting and getting the Devs involved, who may be working on other aspects of the module at the time.

thank you sparky, knowing attention is being paid makes a big difference at least for me. (i know we should always assume "there's somebody out there," but it helps a lot to get confirmation )

[Falazure-]

Maybe add keen sense to the planar summons if you have epic conjuration or something ?buffed right they can get a mean spot skill,but the only thing stopping them at the moment is the game mechanics.

[PeregrineV]

Shadow Dancers could easily be fixed. Whenever a PC is in "hide" mode, their movement drops to 10% of normal (ok maybe even 25% if 10% is too slow). This makes more sense, because if you think about it, if you dance from point A to point B, you are going to go much slower than if you walk or run directly. When they have a Prestige Class called Fast Hiders, then they can hide at normal speeds.



--Based on the theory, "You can run but you can't hide....but you can dance AND hide, just not as quickly as the Fast Hiders."

[kain124]

...dragonshape stuff...

for what it's worth i think bioware true seeing on dragons (or anywhere) is against the spirit of the true seeing changes in the first place. id rather have no bioware true seeing anywhere, so that your hiders can always rely on their skill if they are good enough. ideally there'd also be a reduction in the max sneak skill you can get, so its skill vs skill calibrated so you dont have to be a trick 'wisdom based bard' (try THAT without monk!) in order to counter.

Has less to do with bioware and more to do with D&D. True seeing itself bypasses hips in D&D because it bypasses any form of darkness, and in pnp all you are doing is bending shadows to you allowing you to hide. So in a real pnp game shadowdancers are easily defeated by a casting of true seeing which is why it is a lvl 1 ability. I go back to my original claim that no one at bioware or here has access to thte core D&D rulebooks.

[disastro]

Has less to do with bioware and more to do with D&D. True seeing itself bypasses hips in D&D because it bypasses any form of darkness, and in pnp all you are doing is bending shadows to you allowing you to hide. So in a real pnp game shadowdancers are easily defeated by a casting of true seeing which is why it is a lvl 1 ability. I go back to my original claim that no one at bioware or here has access to thte core D&D rulebooks.

eh? true seeing per the 3.0 System Reference Document that governs nwn1:

"True seeing does not help the viewer see through mundane disguises, spot creatures who are simply hiding, or notice secret doors hidden by mundane means."

hide in plain sight is a supernatural abitity to "simply hide" even though you are being observed. normal: you must have line of sight concealment in order to attempt hide.

edit: srd text for hips:

---
Hide in Plain Sight (Su)
A shadowdancer can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. She cannot, however, hide in her own shadow.
--- (heh they probably should not be able to hide at all in aasamir aura in a city tileset... there wouldnt be any shadows save their own.)

same for 3.5 rules. bioware decided to add in "automatically spot hidden creatures" on their own. as a byproduct of that, sneaking/cloak&dagger style play was utterly annihilated. and i think cloak&dagger is a very nice alternative to the usual "run up to your face and slash/cast." at least, it would be if done properly

so here they modified true seeing (along with a lot of other mods intentionally made to make a better online game environment). the only bit thats off spec here is the granting of +20 spot, which was house-ruled in.

for the record nwn1 was being developed at the same time as the dnd 3.0 rules, which is partly why there's mismatch.

[Amoenotep]

yeah... 3.0 rules were horribly dysfunctional. i'm gonna make a grapple wizard in my next pnp campaign..just for lokey

[Lokey]

yeah... 3.0 rules were horribly dysfunctional. i'm gonna make a grapple wizard in my next pnp campaign..just for lokey

Hug them and slime them

By the time you get polymorph...you'll be able turn into that damn crab! But everything you'll ever fight will have freedom (+ stupid ruling) or a dungeon door if you do. Better DM that game yourself

[kain124]

3.5 srd for true seeing, for clarification I'll bold my point.

"You confer on the subject the ability to see all things as they actually are. The subject sees through normal and magical darkness, notices secret doors hidden by magic, sees the exact locations of creatures or objects under blur or displacement effects, sees invisible creatures or objects normally, sees through illusions, and sees the true form of polymorphed, changed, or transmuted things. Further, the subject can focus its vision to see into the Ethereal Plane (but not into extradimensional spaces). The range of true seeing conferred is 120 feet.
True seeing, however, does not penetrate solid objects. It in no way confers X-ray vision or its equivalent. It does not negate concealment, including that caused by fog and the like. True seeing does not help the viewer see through mundane disguises, spot creatures who are simply hiding, or notice secret doors hidden by mundane means."

Last time I checked a shadow was mundane darkness and someone with true seeing will watch you move through the shadows. Oh and neverwinter was made between AD&D and 3rds release (yup its old), and thats the main reason for allot of stuff bein out of balance.

[disastro]

the problem with that reading is that hips does not hide the shadow dancer IN the shadow. nor is it magical darkness. the rules simply say that if the shadow dancer is within 10 feet of any shadow, they can use the hide ability. it doesnt even have to be "darkness," just any kind of shade or shadow.

there are no restrictions other than shadow has to be nearby when they initiate a regular hide.

using your interpretation, shadowdancers would have to stay in the shadow that allowed them to initiate the hide, which is not stated anywhere. the shadow is just a required component for an otherwise supernatural ability.

additionally, even if true seeing DID work as you describe, true seeing explicitly states that it will not reveal people who are simply hiding, so the rule as written would allow a regular hiding character (whether he got to that state via hips or not) remain hidden, even in shadow, versus a true seer.

else darkvision, low light vision, ultravision, a torch, etc would have the same effect, which is not the case according to any rule i've ever seen.

[kain124]

Well thats your interpretation of it, don't ever make a shadowdancer in my pnp campigns, cause I tend to take things in a more literal sense. If it says you must be w/in ten feet of a shdaow to hide, then you MUST be bending that shadow to you to hide in it, otherwise you should have called the prestige class lightdancer. And none of the other vision spells you mentioned allow you to penetrate magical darkness, which is what I'd consider darkness that moves.

[Valhor]

...dragonshape stuff...

for what it's worth i think bioware true seeing on dragons (or anywhere) is against the spirit of the true seeing changes in the first place. id rather have no bioware true seeing anywhere, so that your hiders can always rely on their skill if they are good enough. ideally there'd also be a reduction in the max sneak skill you can get, so its skill vs skill calibrated so you dont have to be a trick 'wisdom based bard' (try THAT without monk!) in order to counter.

This is exactly what I have been thinking forever, and was amazed when I first found out dragon shape gave innate* true sight. I just think it gets rid of the purpose.