Level Restricted Gear - Rant + Ideas

[Thellenor_ns3]

I will try to not make this a TOTAL soapbox rant, but I need to vent, and would like to hear others' thoughts on the subject.

The Devs do a great job with this realm, but I just don't understand the level restrictions on items. Specifically the level 18 items.

It seems that level 18 restricted weapons have limited value. By the time you can get your hands on some of these items (unless they are given to you), you are usually level 20 or greater. A few levels after that, you can get into an EC party and get a triton.

Restricted armor isn't as bad as the weapon issue, but let me ask... How many characters can survive an area where some good armor drops, prior to level 18 (or even 18 to 30 for that matter), without having some good armor to begin with? Many character start off with some type of enslaved armor, if they can get their hands on it. I don't know of any character that can survive at pre-18 where that armor drops. So, it's like you have to have good gear in order to go to the places that drops the good gear that you're already wearing (because someone gave it to you).

Maybe this is all to encourage partying instead of solo, but we all know that for the most part, people prefer to solo prior to say level 30-40, simply because leveling is quicker.

Maybe this is to encourage people to get their own gear. Well, that's all well and good, but how many of those out there have actually done or do that? I mean totally get your own gear. I'm willing to bet most take SOMETHING, even if it's a +9 ring of prot or ammy or armor. I'm currently working on a character in MW, and it was extremely difficult (almost impossible) surviving anywhere without some decent starting gear, and you can't get it on your own. I mean killed three times in a row by the bats in the sewers... It's pretty pathetic. That server truly forced people to get their own stuff, even though I eventually had a friendly player take pity on my worthless soul and gave me a few items.

So I guess I just don't understand.

Trying to be positive now....

Maybe Increasing Triton level restriction to say 30 to 35th level. But that really hinders the character because the monsters take little damage from anything but a triton when you get up to 30th leveling areas.

Dropping the 18th level restriction to like 10th level, and only slightly increasing the Triton level restriction to maybe 28th.

Maybe slightly boosting Triton weapon damage and making 40th level only, and boosting some of the "other miscellaneous" weapons' damage, and lowering the level restrictions on them. There are some really cool weapons out there, but I seldom see them used, or even use them myself, simply because they need to do just a little more damage to make them useful at the higher character levels, and you can't pick them up until 18th level, and just a few more hours of game time play and I can get a triton. If these really are the most uber weapons in the game, why not make them the most difficult to get (level 40 restricted), but you would have to, at the same time, make the other weapons useful up to that level.

Ok, I'm done, rambled enough...

*steps off of soapbox and begins dodging the stones from dev's and dm's*

[Charon_ns3]

Maybe this is all to encourage partying instead of solo, but we all know that for the most part, people prefer to solo prior to say level 30-40, simply because leveling is quicker.

Hit the nail on the head there. The mod was never designed to be soloed and the devs are continually changing it to make certain areas even more difficult as toons get better. The level restrictions are there to slow down the people who tweak their toons and provide balance (although it won't slow you down much if you know what you're doing). If you're in a party, you don't need lvl 18 gear to get level 18 stuff and the same could be said for lvl 23 goodies. If you're solo, you do...that's the whole point.

As for you experience with MW, all you have to do is ask someone for help. We won't give you handouts (generally) because we want you to experience the mod as it was intended, at least at first. That said, it is possible with the right toon to solo all the way to EC with no help and with the exception of a few items, fully equip yourself with NS gear--BUT it is not easy and takes *forever*.

Kudos for asking why though...keeps things fresh...

[Dr_Fangorn_ns3]

I was going to write a long response, but I ditched it and decided to get to the point.

Neversummer is an OLD (3+ years) mod. Pros did a great job adding on the EC and DwP areas 2 years ago to allow for level 21+ builds, and he has been gracious in letting me play with the mod as I have since October, trying to bring some balance to the mod. The NS 3.5 you play currently is a hugely different beast from last October.

There IS decent gear out there if you've taken the time to explore the mod. Enslaved gear is the best pre level 18 stuff out there as a prize for those players who have worked their way up to be able to take that level on. There's a huge number of pre-18th level gear to be had out there that will get one up and along their way. Noobs doing the Sewers, Essence Quest, Tul'gik's Caves, and the new Graveyard will be well on their way to some decent gear, and will end up at level 5-6 and be able to step out a bit further from Neversummer. As each area gets a review, things are done to make it a bit better for gear and bring things along (c'mon, folks, the Menzoduran and Duergar equipment isn't GREAT, but its still useable if you're a noob starting from scratch).

The mod redesign was aimed to be more difficult as you got further away from Neversummer city itself. There's fantastic beginner equipment to be sought in the Perian Hills. This will get you up to snuff to be able to take on more challenging areas such as the Enchanted Forest (great for Clerics, Druids & Rangers), D'hara, and even Giant Mountain and early areas of Undermountain. The mod's redesign is ongoing. If you check the tweaks and mods update forum, it will show you what we've done: bring in new areas for the bored level 40's (Starfall, Twilight). Revamp and reimagine old areas and underused areas (Enchanted Forest, D'hara, Perian Hills, Giant Mountain, Undermountain). Bring in new areas for those 15-20th toons (new Elemental Planes, revised HoD, Falme, Buccaneer's Den). Open things up a bit for levelling 20-28th level toons (lower Undermountain, new Path to Paradise, rebalaned Undersea City). Bring in new areas for new players to start out (Sewers, Tul'Gik's, Graveyard). Vary the breadth of equipment for players to use at each level (pre 18th, 18-23rd, 23rd, and 25th for Tritons).

Now, the level restrictions have been in place for a while. Pros and I have had chats about rebalancing the gear in the game, and I've got spreadsheets already set up with my goals and ideas that I'd like to implement. However, I'd also like to avoid a player revolt...thus I'm not putting these ideas out as some of you might freak. Don't worry, no big changes coming yet. All I'm trying to say is that NS 3.5 is continuing to evolve. With each new revision we balance out monsters, levels, and equipment, trying to find a place for new things while trying to keep the game balanced.

At some point, when I'm happy with where things are, I'd love to take every scrap of equipment and take a long hard look at where it fits into the scheme of things, and maybe even redesign it from the ground up. How much effort do we give this, given that NWN 2 is months away? Your points have been heard and acknowledged, Thellenor. I'm asking you to explore a bit more, because we've done our best to try and make sure this mod is playable from level 1 to 40 in whatever way you want to, solo or party. And rest assured, I'm thinking about those level restrictions all the time.

[Thellenor_ns3]

Thank you for the good responses. All of your points are well taken. I do understand the limitations of an older, evolving world, and the nearness of NWN2.

I do think there is now a good bunch of areas for smooth leveling and transition. There aren't any other worlds out there that I'm aware of that come close to matching the fun I've had in this world.

Just sharing some thoughts, and it sounds like the dev's are thinking about some of those things. I'm glad you guys take a more scientific approach to balancing things. My observations/opinions are pretty subjective, more general in nature.

Thanks to all the Dev's and DM's that make this world rock!

[DM ex Machina_ns3]

I've started from scratch without much of a problem. But it depends on knowing the mod to know 1) where what gears drops and when you should go get it and 2) what builds do well solo starting from scratch and which do poorly. Starting from scratch is more if an added challenge for people who already know the mod, rather than the ideal way to be introduced to 3.5 imho.

[Charon_ns3]

I was going to write a long response, but I ditched it and decided to get to the point.

That was the abbreviated version?!?

[Dr_Fangorn_ns3]

LOL I know, you should have seen the OTHER response I was preparing.

And FYI, with posts like this coming up, I see that there are players out there who would welcome some revisions. You've spurred me forward in actually implementing some changes with the gear in the game.

Don't say I didn't warn you.

[Boona_ns3]

I started from scratch on east just a few days ago.. Mainly because I didn't have another char :p I'm not really a newbie to NS but I knew nothing of the "new" areas and haven't been to anything after LP except one EC run. I did pick up some armor from the donation box but the only thing I'm wearing from the box now is an amulet of melencia. It is true however that you'll probably get a triton before you kill G1 if you start a new char. Since it's so easy to lvl up to 40 with pre 18 gear it doesn't really matter though.

[puke_dud_ns3]

I have quite a few level 40 toons on MW w/o any EC gear save for a triton and they do just fine in most areas of the game.

The new Str/Wis ring rocks, some new and nifty boots, belts, helms, weapons, hell, just about everything you can don is so cool. It almost hurts to play PnP. Some of the older items have been revamped and pushed to lvl 18 req just because they rock so much. I have an axe of the raven and I'm doing Triton dmg. Outrageous! In fact, the D'hara axe is just as cool and that's not restricted. You can get away with a lot of newbie gear and still make it to mid 20s, even 30s.

I love the variety of areas to grind. No longer am I stuck with duegar/menzo/sunken/lp/ec runs. Now, I can choose coastal/melencia/giants/undermountain. Or, mix and match! And, I can level just as quick and get good gear to sell or use as needed.

Woot, I say to Fang and Pros for making this Persistant World the coolest.

[lougha_ns3]

Agreed!!!!