tweaking level restrictions on gear

[DM Mistress-X_ns3]

New server are you kidding I am just getting use to the old one. I have always thougth that tritons were over powered for a level 28 toon. I have never had a problem hitting anything with a different weapon that is not a triton. Matter of fact I love the YDB and having a server wipe reminde me of why. All my toons never had EC gear. I just had a couple that were my favorite to play with and was happy to have gear on them. I think earning tritons at level 38 just like you do with your NS armor is a great idea. There is two things I tell the people I play with I never want to hear. Can't and run. If you get it in your head you can't do something then you probably won't. Psst hint for back way to Dwarves if anyone wants to take the time to search for it. Area use to be called Blackhills.
Allot has changed DV stick around and I will teach you all I know!

[DM PHANTASM_ns3]

psst Mistriss X is a old timer and the black hills is now called the perian hills:P YBD is on of my fav weapons also i likeit when it was the real YDB with vorpal BUT i still like it

[DM Mistress-X_ns3]

Psst Phant I said hint and USE to be called black hills lol I was trying to get those little brains working

[duodave_ns3]

I'd like to point out that out of the players that I know playing, I think a relatively small percentage of them actually post on NSRealm. So of all the people posting on this thread, I am guessing you're seeing opinions from maybe less than 5% of the player base. So while some people have been very vocal on these issues, if you were to randomly visit servers and ask players what they think on level restrictions, you may not receive the same responses some of the people posting here are stating.

In the end, I don't think its a good idea to drastically change things based on statements from people who already have a dozen level 40 toons.

I consider changing the triton/goop relationship to be a drastic change.

[Razarr69_ns3]

If Trition/NS gear is the best, anything less should have lower restrictions. So either raise the level of Triton/NS Gear and leave others where they are or lower the others. Personally, I find that getting a Triton after you have at least one is a cakewalk (as long as you were smart enough to get an EC Rod while you were in town) All other weapons become pointless once you get your Tritons. Thus, Tritons should be the highest on the level restricted list. Personally, I like the idea of lowering the other gear to 23.

[DM Mistress-X_ns3]

A dozen 40 level toons. Gee didnt West just have a wipe and how long as north been down now? I tell all my players about nsrealm.com forums. If they choose to come and view the forums and see what is going on is up to them. Seems to me the ones that want to voice and opinion come to the forums and do so.

[dbosity_ns3]

I partially agree with Duodave about many players probably would not want the triton level restriction to be raised. However, they probably should come to the forums once in awhile to keep up on some of the discussions here. I'm not completely on board with merely raising the triton weapons level restrictions. All that would accomplish is to annoy the majority of the NS players. If the triton is changed in anyway, then it should be changed with the other weapons becoming more easily attained. As far as YDB goes, it is a great weapon but not everyone wants to use a [censored] sword. Part of the beauty of the triton is that you could pretty much get any style weapon with all of them being roughly equal in power. Currently, I do not believe there is a balance of roughly equally powered weapons for the mid twenties to mid thirties that could properly be a reasonable substitute for the triton. What about my suggestion of changing the triton into a multi-staged weapon. One where you could gradually upgrade it in several stages?

[Jawbreaker_ns3]

The Dungeon Masters Rule game play anyway,not trying to sound negative, please don't take it the wrong way. It's kinda just the way it is.

Afterall it is free play.....

[Nanuk_ns3]

I find myself agreeing with Mistress-X and dbosity on this one. Yes, YDB is a great sword, but to get it you have to have killed G1, which is certainly no mean feat, although a decent dragon build can do this relatively easily on its own, for example. But currently it is probably just as simple to get a Triton [censored] sword, so why would you bother with YDB? OK that might have been a bit of an exaggeration hehe
And dbosity's point was well made. There is no shortage of decent +6 or +7 weapons around, and while I have explored most of the world I suspect there will be some weapons for which a suitable 20-30 lvl version doesn't exist, certainly not for all toons... I'm trying to think of a good katana in this range for example... DR's is restricted to sorc/wiz, green destiny is WM only, the Ichor katana is not particularly good, the one from the bottom of the south tower is only a +5 from memory I think (may be wrong here) and am trying to think where else a good katana drops. Then again its possible I have been somewhere where it is a variable random drop and I got something else, so don't flame me for not knowing
And as for a dozen lvl 40 toons, I wish At the time of the wipe I had 4 lvl 40's, only one of which I played frequently. Mind you, it was a dragon with full NS gear, so he was pretty handy And being on the other side of the world I do find myself playing solo quite a lot, time differences being what they are. Thats why I favour simply raising the level restriction a little rather than makinig it more difficult to obtain a triton, because there will be plenty of other players who either are not always in a position to play in a party a lot, or who simply prefer to solo...
Once again, just my
$0.02.

[DM PHANTASM_ns3]

deep breath 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 release now relax... is everyone ok now??? if not rinse and repeat until you are! i understand that you and a few others want the level restrictions dumbed down to 23rd i really doubt that will ever happen and i DOUBT it wil be set at 38th! I think the point that Mistress and i where try to make is THIS there are tons of weapons and areas the never get seen cause the drops there are NOT UBER enough for some. It is frustrating at least for me when it sounds as tho some do not want a challenge i mean we might as well put goop in the cemetary out side NS gates, then i would bet someone would complain that have to leave the gates of NS to get their UBER weapon. I guess i am a bit upset cause i thought there was a different breed of player now days at NS.

[Jawbreaker_ns3]

I think these ideas from players should be presented as "sugestions" not requests.....then maybe the DM team won't take it so personal.


Deep breath 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 release now relax... are the DM's ok now???

The Dungeon Masters Rule game play anyway,not trying to sound negative, please don't take it the wrong way. It's kinda just the way it is.

Afterall it is free play.....

[NOMAD_CA_ns3]

Well I think that the DMs are right on this one. There are many cool weapons that can kill most of the baddies in NS such as the YDB, vibroblade and twilight weapons. I think that the Devs however would have to take away from there NS5 developing to make any changes like lvl 38 tritons. As a future player on NS5 I would like to play it soon!

[Dr_Fangorn_ns3]

Finally, a word from your friendly neighborhood NS 3.5 Dev.

Thanks to all for your input. Pros and I fully realize the awkward equipment level restriction progression. We have had many discussions on how to best implement new equipment from Twilight, Starfall, and other epic areas in between the NS 3 "top gear" from Dwarves and G1, and the Triton gear introduced in NS 3.5's EC run areas.

It is quite a challenge retrofitting new gear and making it "fit" into established systems. Folks certainly had to deal with Pros' and my tweaks during our major development push last year. Funny thing about this thread is that it has surfaced over six months since Pros and I decided to cool the revamp jets.

Our energies are currently focused on NS 5. The NS 3.5 equipment balancing spectre has reared its head in this thread again, and believe me, its something that I think about from time to time, and wish we had had more time to tweak it and make it better.

One easy way to make things "better" would be to increase the Triton level restriction to 35 or 36, and move the goop drop off to a different area. A lot of thought did go into designing equipment for Twilight, Starfall, the Undermountain expansion, and Dragonstones. I understand people like having the "best gear possible" for their toons, but when compared on paper, folks are really quibbling over very minor points - with NS 3.5's uber gear, what's the difference between a +7 or +8 enhancement? Or an extra d6 or d8 of total damage, which on average will mean only an extra point or two of damage IF you can land the hit?

Whew! I'll get off the soapbox for now. There's a peek into the mind of one of your developers. Long story short, unless there's a strong push to change things up, NS 3.5 is about as mature as it is going to get at this point. We're working hard (really, we are!) to get something in NWN 2 into shape for our devoted NWN players to try. The level restrictions in NS 3.5 aren't perfect, and I wish there were other ways of getting players to diversify and experience all the areas Pros and I made for you to enjoy. Ultimately, though, people fall into familiar patterns in their chase for a level 40 toon, myself included! Real life being what it is, neither Pros nor I have enough time to devote to a revamp of the NS 3.5 equipment. If a constructive option comes out of this thread, I'm always willing to see whether a change can be implemented.

Thanks for continuing to play this wonderful mod. NS was the first and only PW I've spent any time on, and any game that can keep us this obsessed for 4 or 5 years must be worth playing.

[Killim1_ns3]

LOL...I am one of those players that has had more level 40's than I can count and on all of the NS servers (not including 4). The fastest I have seen a toon start at level 1 and reach level 40 is 10 hours. With that in mind, I have started playing NWN2. I have plaid on the same server for three weeks. I am now 400xp away from level 5. Hold those thoughts in your mind then ask the question again about what type of players are running around NS. (no worries Phant, I still love you and the mod )

Notice when I joined the forums. That date is six months behind when I truely started playing NS (tks VodkaChilled for the intro to this awsome community). IMHO the players with the mind set Phant is talking about may have migrated over to NWN2 (also those with the funds to upgrade comps to run the silly game ) NS has been a great server and will continue to have players as long as it's up.

Balance will be an issue with every server anyone makes. Triton weapons are the "best" in the game. Having them available at level 28 unbalances the leveling process of the mod. It makes other lesser weapons obsolete.

With all that being said, I wish to thank Pros, Fangy, and all the team for continuing the NS legacy. Their work has built a community for thousands of gamers to enjoy. If the weapons are changed...great...if there not changed...great....bottom line is thanks for all the hard work over the last few years and the continued work on NS's future (NS 5 and beyond).

[NOMAD_CA_ns3]

Agreed thanks Devs!! In my many years I haev tried other servers but always end up in NS because its the most fun