NWN 2 :Forgotten Realms

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DM Celt_ns3
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NWN 2 :Forgotten Realms

Post by DM Celt_ns3 »

Well, not sure how many of you out there are messing with this, but for those of you who are a little more cautious about spending money here is my evaluation of NWN2.

I bought NWN2 the day it came out. I have been spending the last few days trying to make it play. I am not having fun, and getting more and more pissed everyday I play with it. For those of you who want instant fun, forget it. You will spend the next week or so just getting it to where you like it. Here are the bad parts.

1. Immediate Patching Required:
When you take the game home, and install it, you will need to immediately run the updater. If you skip this step and play it solo, or if you try to enter a game on the internet, the game locks up and you pollute a file or two in the install. This jacks up the updater if you go back to try and run it. So the very first thing you have to do is run the automatic updater. There are actually two patches at first. The first one patches the auto-patcher and updater (go figure), the second one is a whopping 82.5 MB's big! Thats roughly 40-60 minute download on DSL (depending on your pipe), and another 20 minutes after that letting it install itself. If you are lucky the install will proceed without a problem. If you are unlucky or named 'DM Celt' then you will have to un-install NWN2, re-install it, then dl the patch again and try to install. I did this 7 times because the servers are slow and crowded, which leave a large gap for your files to become corrupted. I spent 2 days just trying to patch the game.

2. Great if you got to here then you are a persistant soul, and are a glutton for punishment, make sure to stop by North on your way out, and I will give you a floggin! ;). In any case Here is the next problem. Lets say you want to head straight for a server and start playing online. Very well noble savage, but first you have to weed out the ones you can play and the ones you cannot. The ones you CAN play, are in bright white, the ones you cannot are in Grey. Grey indicates taht the mod is using a toolset that isnt even available yet. So good luck with that.

3. More online play problems: There are hardly ANY servers out there to play. PW Action has like 4 servers listed so far. In fact almost nothing is PW (Persistant World). What does this mean? Well it means that the Servers probably keep bankers hours. Open at 9am close at 5pm. But seriously PW's are 24/7/365 and there arnt that many yet.

4: Even more online play problems: Online play is ridiculously laggy, you should see some of the 'Ping' times I am getting here. 500-600 isnt unheard of. Its laughable.

5. Yet, more online play problems: This is the WORST THING EVAH! got your attention? good. Lets say you want to play an online server. So you go and connect to the server, then create a character, then hit the 'finish' button to be transported to the mod and BANG! You are locked up. So you restart the game and try a different server. BANG! locked up again. Still you really wanna play so you kill the game, and start again with a different server. BANG! youre locked again! What is going on you might ask. Nothing, thats what is supposed to happen. Thats right, its SUPPOSED to happen. Each server has its own special code/file. So if you wanna play, you have to go to the server, and find the server's website, then download a zipped-file from the internet, and navigate to C:/Atari/NWN2/'some folder here' and unzip what is known as a 'PWC' file (password content file or something) into the correct folder. If you do not do this, you will not be able to play that server. Something else, each server is different, so you will have to get PWC's for each server you want to play.

6. 3L33T5: (elites) They are everywhere and they are a real pain in the butt. I'm already contemplating a new sniper rifle.

7. The game is clunky, chunky, and hard as hell to use. Click on the ground, and wait five minutes before your toon starts running. But before I start complaining, let me share the system I run.

Motherboard: ASUS (not taht dual motherboard crap, a real MB).
Video Card: ATI Radeon 9550 with 256mb of onboard. (by the way, I was reading in the forums today that there are known issues with NVIDEA cards, and their drivers, so expect performance issues if you use em. SLI profiles are out of whack: http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=510844&forum=109
Chipset: AMD Athelon 64, and another with Opteron.
RAM: 1 gig of Corsair.

At first I thought I was going to have to get a new MOBO, but after visiting several forums, I found out that it wasn't my system its they way they coded the thing. And here is my first true geek complaint. The completely recoded the entire game using .NET architecture. Thanks Gates and your endless barrage of Microsh*t. Oh well. The coding is very gaudy, which means gaudy playability. This won't improve until they have had time to optimize the code for transitions, gameplay, etc, etc.

8. Playable characters: Yes, you can play a whole party of characters at once! Sounds nice doesn't it? It isn't! In fact its a friggin nightmare! When you solo play, you start off the game with 2 companions. A Sorcerer, and a Knight. When you start the game you level twice right off. Heres the catch, you have to level for your companions. Thats right, you have to level 6 times! You level twice for you, then switch toons to level him twice, then switch toons and level the other twice. This makes for extremely long periods of down time. Plus they are different builds, so you have to think through what to give each one of them, AND hope that they use the skills you give them during combat.

9. Boring Story Lines: Yes just like NWN1, NWN2 is repleat with meaningless dialogue. It is supposed to be immersive, but I don't find that the case here.

10. Miniature Maps: Because NWN2 is so graphics intensive, large maps are completely out. You will no longer see areas the size of Neversummer. Map sizes are very, very constrained with very little in the way of exploration. You just can't have very big maps here, and I don't expect this part to change, even when they get the bugs out. They are so small in fact, I couldn't even call them maps, they are more like rooms.

11. New spells: Yes there are new spells for mages. I havnt tried them yet, but what sticks in my craw is that they reslotted alot of our old favorites. Mass Heal for instance is now a level 9 cleric spell! The D&D 3.5 rules are more closely adhered to, sure, but you will have to pay careful attention to the details, character building will be more than just a challenge.

12: Feats resloted: yes all your favorites will for the most part be reslotted, and new requirements will be found too. Pay close attention to details.

13. Levels: You are supposed to play to level 60 on the Epic side of things, however, so far most of the online servers only support up to level 20. There are 3 or 4 that support level 40 play, but I'm not sure they are even accessible at this point.

14. The HUD (Heads Up Display) is just pure crappy and gaudy. Great big Icons for your party-mates, and a bare minimum of usable buttons. Even the F-slots don't look right. It's just plain ugly, figuring out how to add spells to quicklots is a pain in the butt as well, the radial-dial menu is completely gone, you won't be right-clicking any more, you'll have to find it in the weird HUD, which is a feat in itself.

15. New Races, subraces, and classes add comlexity to the game, without seeming to add any real benefit. I read over the new Warlock class and it doesnt really blow me out of the water. People have really already been creating Warlocks with the origninal NWN toolset, its called a 'Pale Master'! Really I dont see much of a difference. What it boils down to, is that Warlock is really a fighter-mage.

16. The book is a piece of crap. Remember that beautifully spiral-bound book that came with the platinum edition? Ya! thats gone.

It's getting late, I'm gettin tired and finding it hard to focus on this. More news to come later, but my recommendation is to wait for about a year or so before you buy this. At least that way you can get a mor eimproved, and debuged software.
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Yeti_ns3
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Post by Yeti_ns3 »

i have heard people say they hated it and others singing it's praises im going to have to see what i think :D
"What was once rebellion is now clearly just a social sect But are you just upset because your own social clique has left Leave when you want because I know that someday I will too But I wont burn my bridges and be just another jaded fool"

DM Celt_ns3
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Post by DM Celt_ns3 »

The definition of insanity is to do the same thing twice and expect different results. ;)
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DM Celt_ns3
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Post by DM Celt_ns3 »

I just found out that once you download a servers PWC file from their server, you have to go to;
c:\program files\Atari\Neverwinter Nights 2\pwc and unzip the file there.

One problem, the pwc folder doesn't exist, so you have to create it. Sounds easy enough right? Wrong!

You see if you go to the NWN2 website to download critical rebuilds, what does a critical rebuild do? It completly rebuilds your file structure of the entire game for you. So what does this mean? pwc gets deleted, just like in NWN1, deletes the hacks folder.

So if you ever download a critical rebuild you will have to go and download ALL the pwc's for the servers you play.

Just thought you all might want to know.
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Jaeson Hawke_ns3
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Post by Jaeson Hawke_ns3 »

Just like when NWN launched, same problems. Only difference is, there are builders out there with experience. Worlds will be launched sooner and with better quality cause its been done before.

I am interested in NS5, just hope TGPO and DD can get it done quickly :D
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Post by Dr_Fangorn_ns3 »

Don't worry, DD and TGPO aren't the only ones working on it... ;)
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DM Celt_ns3
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Post by DM Celt_ns3 »

UPDATE:

you can un-furl the 'pwc' zips in the following directories;

c:/Program Files/Atari/NWN2/
or
C:/My Documents/NWN2/pwc

However, DO NOT create a pwc folder in atari/nwn2/ it doesn't work like I was told.

But in my opinon, wait a year for these guys to get their crap straightened out before buying and trying, otherwise you may have an extremely frustrating time.

NeverSummer Forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Blaskor_ns3 »

Install: Piece of cake.

Crashes: None.

System: Made minimum specs, but not by much.

The reason you don't see any servers out there is that they haven't been made yet. I don't see a NS5 yet, but I realize that it is going to take along time to get a REAL PW server going. I'm sure this was the case with NWN when it first came out as well. The greyed out servers I believe have not had the update yet on them so are on a different version (just like NWN). I don't have any problem leveling my buds, you can always just hit recommend all the way through them. Don't have to worry about HP rolls, its always max. I downloaded a PWC file for a server and un-zipped it normally. I believe the reason they put the PWCs and Haks in the My Documents is so you could uninstall the game completely and keep that folder and would not have to re-dl anything. I think I like the idea that they are fixing post-gold errors earlier rather than later. If not, your complaint would be "There is a bug and they aren't fixing it!"

My opinion: Worth it totally.
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Jaeson Hawke_ns3
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Post by Jaeson Hawke_ns3 »

NS5 is in the works (check out the homepage). I remember about a year ago, wonder if I can necro it and quote it here... if I can find it, it was said that NS3.5 and 4 would be going strong and NWN2 was not on the horizon.

It is now heh. I do hope they can keep us mildly updated because DAMN! the game looks nice, sounds, and the advanced tools allows for so much more.

I know they probably know this and all, but the creators made it so you can convert NWN1 scripts convert to NWN2 scripts and add all the new goodies to em. Of course the classes are different (namely ranger and no shifter grrr).
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Post by Dr_Fangorn_ns3 »

Its not that easy, believe me.

Pros and I have hooked up with the NS 4 developers and are working hard on fleshing out our ideas for NS 5. Although the scripts can port over, there are a huge number of script functions that are not included in NWN 2, along with a bunch of new ones. The maps won't transfer over either...

So basically we're building from scratch, just like when NWN 1 came out. It will take a while to get NS 5 going (there isn't even decent DB support in NWN 2, nor was there when NWN 1 came out initially), so rest assured, NS 3.5 and 4 will continue to be supported while we get the next generation up and running. ;)
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brash99_ns3
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Post by brash99_ns3 »

Just a response to the first post, which seems dreadfully negative.

I have been playing NWN2 since release and had no trouble installing, no crashes, and the few bugs I did run into, were trivial. I have run the game on three computers ranging from lowend to midrange to highend, only the lowend one (Sempron 2200/768MB/9600pro) had intense performance issues; it was playable but quite sluggish. If the original poster was running XFire, that may have been much of his issue as devs have said that optional program cut some people's performance as much as half, but there are INI tweaks they suggest to completely correct that (top of stickies on the tech support forum). I decided not to install that optional program and maybe that is why I had no issues. Also turning off water refraction & soft shadows helps

(edit: I just noticed OP is trying to run the game on a Radeon 9550. Yes, the game *WILL* have issues with that lowend of a card, even with every setting at its lowest. That is unlikely to change. It's as least as demanding on a system as Oblivion, maybe more so, so if you had issues with that game performance wise, you may want to give NWN2 a skip. On my Geforce 6800GT and Radeon x1900xtx, it ran fine. On my Radeon 9600pro, it was playable but sluggish. I have a FX5200 and 9800pro around the house I was meaning to test the game on, but I am 99% sure the FX5200 will be unplayable, and the 9800pro will do fine at tweaked settings. The game demands a lot more from your videocard than any other components, so a fast CPU and lots of ram won't help if you have an old or a very lowend budget card. The steep hardware requirements are going to cause a lot of gnashing of teeth, especially because it looks very nice -- but not *THAT* very nice, for such steep reqs.)

Otherall, despite some flaws (I had no issues with camera but companion AI does irk me) I think NWN2 is terrific and that once the community mods catch up, will be even better than NWN1. The singleplayer OC is definately tons better.

Obviously there are not many online persistent worlds yet. The best of NWN1's took years to grow and mature. The game has only been out a week; expect it to be many months for some good PW worlds to come out.

I know some people have been frustrated, I am sure that was true on NWN1's release as well, but for me it has been delightful fun so far. If you read the various NWN2 forums, you'll see easily as many people think this is the greatest RPG game since Planscape/Baldurs Gate II.

For a range of reviews from different gaming sites, see http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages4/922154.asp

Reactions are definately very split on this one. You'll have to make up your own mind.

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oh its not that bad

Post by Wyld Stallyns_ns3 »

1) Luck of the ignorant for me. Somehow managed to patch before I played after install therefor bypassing frustration. 1.68 of nwn means what, 68 patches ? LoL.

2) Didn't even know that.

3) I think theres one now. Grimstavern

4) No better ping times than posted

5) PWC replace need for HAK downloads then? Blah maybe we will need both in future

6) Don't worry 'bout it. They are so uber they will shoot you thru your scope on rifle.

7) VERY glad to know its not just me. NVIDIA commercial, "PLAY THE GAME AS ITS MEANT TO BE PLAYED" Not!!

8) return of BG is what I can keep thinking. Sure this isn't BG3 ? Whats this AMN business ? :lol:

9) It's only boring once you played it more than twice. Seriously, I didn't think it that bland going thru it the first/second times.

10) I dunno, some "maps" of dungeon areas are reasonable. Like the graveyard. swamp ruins. They're not huge. I believe putting NS (the city) in same size map of harbortown not impossible.

11) That's not nwn2 fault, its dnd 3.5

12) and some might not work the same as nwn1, again due to dnd 3.5 rules. example expertise is named combat expertise and its +3 ac with -3 ab penalty. (not 5 and 5)

13) original campaign is capped at 20?

14) right clicking targets things.. useful, but won't be doing that a whole lot.

15) I disagree with you. For one the races are more or less what we've seen already in some pw's. Now we don't need haks to play 'em they're default. :lol: Except for ghostwise halfling, they get left out for some reason ? Drow and Duergar. bah. Tiefling, neato. Aasimar - Rocking.

Classes, I agree about warlock. Was this one really necessary? Prc's that only have 5 levels and stop. WTF. They took out Shifter and left in Harper.. Double WTF..

I do like some of the changes regarding bards and rangers, but thats more 3.5 doing than it is Obsidians.


16) Manual is a waste. It's a shame the strat guide cost so much, but its worth it. Presents the same info, only better. Well plus there's the reference charts and uh the walkthru of course.


Analysis: There is potential, lots of potential. Right now I'd buy it if you want to dive into the single player part and play it. If you're into MP only, I'd hold off for several patches later... I'd say get the strat guide if you would read the manual. If you don't ever look at manual don't bother. I really also believe normal game is hard capped at 20. I was fooling around with them codes and gave myself the xp but couldn't go past. Also looked for epic feats and things in toolset, just wasn't there. So don't expect to make a bard/rdd/wm and get dev crit. Well not right now anyways. Merchant's friend is nice but it's not game breaking, don't sweat if you didn't pre-order. It's hard to be fair since NWN1 is patched and all refined but definitely will be worth it later if you don't think so now.

DrakhanValane_ns3
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Re: oh its not that bad

Post by DrakhanValane_ns3 »

Wyld Stallyns wrote:1) Luck of the ignorant for me. Somehow managed to patch before I played after install therefor bypassing frustration. 1.68 of nwn means what, 68 patches ? LoL.


Closer to 40. Base game to SoU was roughly 30 patches, but there weren't many patches between SoU and HotU where they skipped straight to 1.60
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Post by Gtu_ns3 »

Is there any known issue installing to a different directory or even drive than what was specified in the posts here? I would most likely be installing to D:\Games\NWN2 but not if it would cause issues (patching, rebuilds, etc.).

brash99_ns3
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Post by brash99_ns3 »

I installed to E:/Games/NWN2 and had no problems patching.

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