Pale Master question

Jabronius_ns3 · Post by **Jabronius_ns3** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:34 pm

Hi, all,
Just a quick question about the Pale Master prestige class on NS. Does it work more or less as described in the manual or the Neverwinter Grimoire? If not, how is it different? Also, I've heard you cannot combine Bard with PM. Please let me know if that's the case.

Thanks!

Dr_Fangorn_ns3 · Post by **Dr_Fangorn_ns3** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:56 pm

Heya. The exact PM nerf details are in your journal. To summarize, you can't take PM with bard levels. You need either 10 Wiz or Sorc levels minimum, and you have to take your first PM (edited) level pre-level 20.

DM ex Machina_ns3 · Post by **DM ex Machina_ns3** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:12 pm

*1st PM lvl

Jabronius_ns3 · Post by **Jabronius_ns3** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:46 pm

Thanks for the clarification

kingubu_ns3 · Post by **kingubu_ns3** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:36 pm

Does this rule apply to all the NS servers?

I was just thinking about a PM character because I've never played one. The journal just mentions NS Midwest and I've been playing on East.

Also is there any way to request an exception if it does apply to all?

I'd like to build a monk20/wiz4/pm16 gnome. Never been a gnome either. I don't think it's going to be a particularly munchy build. Just thought it would be different and fun.

Not a big deal either way. Can change to something like monk12/wiz12/pm16. Just have to lose the cool glowing eyes. Like I said, I'm more about the style of the character than being super-uber.

I guess I'm also curious about the "problem" this rule is supposed to fix. So if anyone knew the historical reasons for this, I'd be interested in hearing about it. I'm all for house rules and such. I started back in the day when we didn't even have rule books. Just made the stuff up as we went.

Kell Of Neversummer_ns3 · Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:48 pm

Yes, the rule applies on all servers.

Before the forum was trashed, there was a long discussion on this. If I remember right, the limitation was added for balance. The bard/pm was an overpowering combination.

Your servant,

Dr_Fangorn_ns3 · Post by **Dr_Fangorn_ns3** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:54 pm

Yes, quite overpowering, kind of like all the 38/1/1 sorc/pally/monks that are running around these days pumping IGMS into everything.

lougha_ns3 · Post by **lougha_ns3** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:28 pm

interesting that I just fell upon this... I was considering a similar build (monk/wiz/pm - 25/5/10) and learned on the DOJO it would not work b/c of the PM restrictions. I'm not sure I agree with the idea of nixing an overpowering build. Like Doc just pointed out, there are still overpowering builds out there. Once the most overpowering gets nixed, there becomes a 'next most overpowering' build and so forth and so on until we've nixed enough builds that most everyone is the same. Well, that's just my two cents... if it even qualifies as that valuable.

as a follow up question... for the builds in question, as long as the FIRST PM level is pre-epic, you're okay right? I could do this build, but the progression would have to be 15 monk, 4 wiz, 1 PM, then whatever after that... is that correct?

kingubu_ns3 · Post by **kingubu_ns3** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:29 pm

Wow, quick reply. Thanks.

Well, I hate to un-bury any hatchets, but is there any way to be granted an exception? or a rule modification? If, say, the rule was 4 levels of wizard, I could still have my glowing eyes.

Long shot, I know, but never hurts to ask.

jwiwchar_ns3 · Post by **jwiwchar_ns3** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:33 pm

lougha wrote:as a follow up question... for the builds in question, as long as the FIRST PM level is pre-epic, you're okay right? I could do this build, but the progression would have to be 15 monk, 4 wiz, 1 PM, then whatever after that... is that correct?

No, in addition to the first PM level being pre-epic, you also need 10 wiz or sorc before taking PM.

While I agree that limiting builds is a bad thing, putting restrictions on pale master is a pretty common thing on different servers. I don't think I was around when bard/PM was allowed, but I can imagine it was quite overpowering.

Dr_Fangorn_ns3 · Post by **Dr_Fangorn_ns3** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:28 pm

We all know its the immunity to crits that does it with that 10th level of PM. That extra +2 AC on 12th level and up also is really nice for your tankability. However, there are decent tanking builds out there, like the 25/5/10 monk/druid/shifter (altho your AB will suck). The PM nerf has been around for about 14 months now and is unlikely to go away. However, like jwiwchar has stated, there is always that "next best build" that seems to occur in waves throughout the servers. It is too bad that you can't build an uber PM, I admit I've always wanted to build one on NS, but hey, there are still lots of other combinations out there to try.

Anonymous_ns3 · Post by **Anonymous_ns3** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:24 am

39sorc 1 pally is much better now =)

Anonymous_ns3 · Post by **Anonymous_ns3** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 3:27 am

I've built 2 decent melee PMs (after the restrictions, before the wipe). One was a dex-based Wizard 10 PM 10 WM 20 and the other a Sorc 10 RDD 10 PM 20... I'm playing the second build in Midwest at the moment and it's a decent enough build. Will end up with 56 AB and 93 AC and 666 HP

Only get 3 attacks but I think of that as having 61AB and everyone I fight has Epic Dodge

Point is that PM can still make a decent enough spellsword, so don't let the restrictions hold you back from playing the class.

On the other side of this coin, I personally disagree with any build restrictions. The PM nerf came in just as I was first experimenting with PM and it really took a lot of fun away for me (why is this server heading away from fun and towards these restrictions?). If people enjoy being overpowered then let them... same sort of people that play through single player games in God mode. Short of having the Bard PM mix they'll just play a dex-based Fighter / Rogue / WM with Epic Dodge... which is probably more powerful in every way anyway. Hopefully they won't nerf the WM class next... any more build restrictions would probably make me want to stop playing this mod altogether just on principle.

Anonymous_ns3 · Post by **Anonymous_ns3** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 7:23 am

It was last October for the nerf heard round the world

Before that you'd log in and about 3/4 playing were 26 Fighter or Paladin/ 4 Bard/ 10 Pale Munchkin (with 8 charisma, 6 if dwarf or horc). The only thing that could stand in their way was a locked door

kingubu_ns3 · Post by **kingubu_ns3** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:25 pm

The only problem I see with uber-munchkins is when the DMs start tayloring the module to them. I personally don't care if guys want to make super toons and destroy everything. Not like I'm going to PvP with them.

That kind of god-mode play is self limiting. Without a challenge, the munchkins will get bored and go away.

But if the DMs start powering up the monsters to meet the munkins then players are forced to munkin up just to play. Like trying to compete in a professional sport where everyone else is on steroids. You're out of luck if you don't.

If this was a competition, I could see the need for a level playing field. But it's not. Instead DMs should turn a deaf ear to munchkins complaining that they are bored because their 1600HP AC120 AB90 toon doesn't have any challenges.

But hey, that's just me. Maybe there is something other problem with munchkins that I just never noticed.