Pale Master question

tbarre_ns3 · Post by **tbarre_ns3** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:33 am

My bad, I did not know I would be graded, well hand me the F and be done with it. It was intentionally ran together, it was a mission statement.
I just kept going. Read or ignore, it is just one mans voice, some ppl just hear it, while others actually listen.

Opinions are like builds, some are good some are not, but we all have one.

There is your paragraph.

TJ

Baatazu_ns3 · Post by **Baatazu_ns3** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 8:55 am

This is just my oppinion and I am sure many people will think I am wrong, but here goes. The Pale Master class is not as over powerful as everybody makes it out to be, at least not when it is mixed with caster classes. PM's do get an increase to the spells per day(evey other lvl.), but they don't get an increase to there caster lvl. and the do not get new spells.(only really a problem for sorc and bard). This means if you only take 3 lvls in the class you choose to qualify for it, you will be doomed to cast all your spells at 3rd lvl effect(3d6 fireballs, yippie). Pm's also get the worst base attack and only slightly better hit points then your average rogue. And for this they get imminity to crits and really good natural armor bonus. For a caster type this is not over powering, it is an edge to stay alive long enough to get your spells off( very important on servers with dev crit ). So it seems to me the real problem stems from people making uber melee builds mixed with 3 lvls in something and then 10 in PM. Now I personally still dont see this as problem, but I can understand how other people could. I quess my thought is this, if there is going to be a restriction on the PM/figthers, then make the restriction that you can't take warrior classes with pm. After all you would think someone who has mastered the arts of nercomancy wouldnt have time or the interest to persue a fighters carrier.

If this is the type of build I wanted to eliminate think i would instead make the restriction: You can only have 4 lvls of a base melee class(any with fighters base attack,not including prestige class, making the base attack requirement for them will keep you from getting to many attacks), and still take the PM class. You must still take you first PM lvl at 20th or before.

The you could unrestrist the bard and it would become the only good tank style PM, and if my math is right you still couldn't get 4 attack/rnd( let me now if I am wrong.)

I would like to see a new method, mostly because unlike some I dont feel bards shouldnt be allowed to become PM's. I have used many undead bards in my PnP games and they are always a blast.

Oh well I ve ranted long enough, just my 2 cents..

Baatazu_ns3 · Post by **Baatazu_ns3** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:07 am

Looking back on it you might have to restrict the melee prestige classes too: i think bard11/pm1/wm8 gets 4 attacks. .

That would be : Fighter, Ranger, Paladin, Barbarian, Arcane Archer, Blackguard,Champoin of Torm, Dwarven Defender,wepon master, restricted to 4th lvl if your PM.

Fezzik_ns3 · Post by **Fezzik_ns3** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:39 pm

You could still make a badass character with your restrictions...

26 bard, 4 ftr, 10pm... 4 base attacks per round... high ab and crit immunity.

And critical hit immunity is worth almost anything.... its worth a low ab a lot of time since the monsters in ns don't have high AC anyway.

midnight08_ns3 · Post by **midnight08_ns3** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:43 pm

exactly, the devs have to build the mod to handle certain builds... some builds break the standards they have set.... crit immune, dev crit, etc.... are specialist effects (only a small % of builds use them), yet they can break the building process completely (to challenge a good crit immune char u need to increase damage overall... do that and ppl w/o crit immune get critted for reven higher damage, now the game is unbalanced against them.) The reasoning behind PM changes and other similar balance nerfs comes from this same idea ususlly... Is it worth it to ruin the game for the majority of the players so that a particular build isnt overpowered? Is it worth it to allow a build to be overpowered, and lower the challenge overall to all players? The prior would make things too difficult for most players, and the latter could ruin the economy... An occasional great build isnt bad... but a build that could lets say, make DWP a moderately challenging an slightly time consuming solo event. Just is not worth it. (crit immune could do this if built correctly, and bard levels with buffs can make the player much more powerful). Yes, it would be nice to be able to play these, but on a server where the allowance could negatively impact a majority of the players in 1 way or another, its just not worth it... Now, i would LOVE changes made to make a pure pale master more effective (make him a summoner who's undead summons are more effective based on his PM levels), but to lift the PM restrictions, i'd say its not worth it...

Fezzik_ns3 · Post by **Fezzik_ns3** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:17 pm

To say that a pale master isn't overly powerful is a big miss. Pale masters are better tanks then DDs in most cases.... and if you mix the two together (I have a wiz/dd/pm), then you have a beast.

Baatazu_ns3 · Post by **Baatazu_ns3** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:01 pm

The only Pm build i ve ever played that i felt was to powerful was bard/dd/pm, and you can only do that on servers that allow easy alignment shifting(maybe this one does, i havent seen it though). Otherwise, the things you give up to be a PM balance the class. I have a dd with 1000+hp, getting critted doesnt matter to me at all, and my ac sucks so i get critted alot. I ve made a pm here with 8 attacks around, my ab isnt the greatest(48 ),but as someone already pointed out, monsters on this server dont have great ac's. So does it realy matter if there are PM's with 4 attacks around, idont think so,but thats just my oppinion

as for allowing bards, i have since learned that bard song has been made more powerful, this could definitely unbalance things, so until i know what the changes are i wont bother argueing this one further

Acara_ns3 · Post by **Acara_ns3** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:08 pm

can you be pm if you're bard still? thought it was wiz/sorc only..?

allaKAZAAM_ns3 · Post by **allaKAZAAM_ns3** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:06 pm

You can multiclass anything with PM..as long [censored] you take 10 lvls of Sorc or Wiz minimum....the rest is upto you!

So yes you can build say a 10 Sorc/?Bard/?PM

Peadur

Acara_ns3 · Post by **Acara_ns3** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:38 am

by that I meant

Fezzik wrote:26 bard, 4 ftr, 10pm

Post by **TGPO_ns3** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 10:11 am

Ah, the bard bit is NS specific.