Pale Master question

[lougha_ns3]

While I'm not a fan of limiting options on principle, I do understand that it can at times make a better experience for all involved. I am curious though about this particular restriction. It seams that the PM-Bard combo was the heart of the problem, so I understand limiting that, but why did the rule about 10 Wiz/Sorc levels come into play? How does that affect this issue? Also, why the "PM before 20" rule?

Just an interested noob trying to get creative about builds.

[Anonymous_ns3]

It was after 5 minutes of stealing someone's character (Cremator's I think) and seeing what could actually hurt it (a couple of turns of G1 pummeling on you). Bard was optional, it was any class that would meet PM--wiz/sorc/bard, but bard has the better skill list and more skill points.

What the 10 wiz or sorc pre-epic means is that a PM will have at max 3 attacks with bab maxxing at 14. Can still treat the primary cast stat as a dump stat, but you'll always be 6 ab below primary melee builds with one less attack. You can still tank, but you'll can't be the best melee damage dealer at the same time.

kingubu, it's been our experience that too many bored players won't quietly leave, and cause as much grief as they can before being banned. Wish it weren't that way...

A lot has changed in the mod in the last year though. Ask the DMs if they're willing to look into it, it would only take a second to deactivate the pre-reqs.

[cryodog2_ns3]

the other part of this equation is that if you wanted to get around the system you could do a 28bard/3wiz/10pm. so in all actuality you would still be able to get your bard pm if the limitations were only for bards. we had to do it for all classes.

[lougha_ns3]

Thanks to everyone who has been willing to offer the reasons for this. I still don't quite get all the in's and out's of this particualr issue, but that is a reflection of my limited ability with toon building. thanks

d-

[Anonymous_ns3]

Heya. The exact PM nerf details are in your journal. To summarize, you can't take PM with bard levels. You need either 10 Wiz or Sorc levels minimum, and you have to take your first PM (edited) level pre-level 20.

Is it possible to make this any caster not just Sorc and Wiz.. Say Cleric, or Druid as long as you adhere to the PM level prior to 20, and take at least 10 levels in whichever caster you choose?

[Dr_Fangorn_ns3]

In a word, no. The prestige class requirements requires level 3 arcane spells. Thus wiz, sorc, or bard only.

[Anonymous_ns3]

In a word, no. The prestige class requirements requires level 3 arcane spells. Thus wiz, sorc, or bard only.

Well I was thinking more Bard/Cleric/PM..

[wise2727_ns3]

First, that class is a powerbuilders dream come true! if it only takes 3 levels of a caster of any kind, it leaves plenty of levels for NASTY combonations to take place. The class of pale master was designed to make casters survive in melee (yeah i know, and a few minor caster bonuses).

I think that everyone has been explaining for the power building aspect. Take a look at the role playing aspect if thats your thing. Pale masters are a class designed to strengthen "evil" casters. d&d 3.5 would otherwise have a HUGE weakness for those players. Also, what is the purpose of taking a casting prestige class to make your fighter better... The rpger in me twitches at the concept.

I hope this is helpful, and not just repetative. if it's the latter, i appologize.

[ApacheLQ_ns3]

The only problem I see with uber-munchkins is when the DMs start tayloring the module to them. I personally don't care if guys want to make super toons and destroy everything. Not like I'm going to PvP with them.

That kind of god-mode play is self limiting. Without a challenge, the munchkins will get bored and go away.

But if the DMs start powering up the monsters to meet the munkins then players are forced to munkin up just to play. Like trying to compete in a professional sport where everyone else is on steroids. You're out of luck if you don't.

If this was a competition, I could see the need for a level playing field. But it's not. Instead DMs should turn a deaf ear to munchkins complaining that they are bored because their 1600HP AC120 AB90 toon doesn't have any challenges.

But hey, that's just me. Maybe there is something other problem with munchkins that I just never noticed.

My level 40 at the moment has 1342hp, an AC of 61 and an AB of 47 unbuffed (only self buffs are Ice Shield, Scabard and NS Gaunts) I find it tough enough and can't even solo an EC run. This is an action server, if people want to slave away for 5 hours earning 2xp from every kill, gaining 1Gp every other kill and [censored] foot around worrying about not being able to use a +1 weapon until 5th level (See Anphilla) they can use a PW Story world. I like being able to build up a character, being able to use the high level stuff and still having things that are beyond my capabilities. I love the idea of a Goblin with 5000hp, hitting me for 250hp each hit, casting 9th level spells at me me still being able to kill them. The main reason I play on this server compared to any other server and also any other version of this server is the community. I've made some good friends here, we all help eachother, party together, explore together, help eachother out with new builds and items and money. I ove helping the new players that aren't used t such a high powered server. So much time and effort and back breaking work has gone into this server and it shows. If you don't like the high powered nature of the server then don't play it, I thought that would have been obvious.

[Pros_ns3]

I suppose no matter how we build the mod we will always have the positives and negatives. Neversummer offers a few varieties of mod styles. NS4 being the less uber mod with factions and a different approach. NS3.5 offers a PvP server and a few non-PvP servers. NS3 was built years ago and eventually grew from a level 20 to a level 40 toon server. It incorporated the expansion packs and has evolved into NS3.5 now twice as big as NS3 was(how many years have we been running now?). It gets support for the players. We listen to the players and use their feedback since they are the ones playing the game. Some of our decisions/designs are not always popular with the players. We try to design to add fun for both the players and the designers. An unfortunate side effect is that we will never please 100% of the player base. I can accept that the positives out-weigh the negatives. As one of the dev's I can say I like the health of NS3.5 even with its quirks.....

[lougha_ns3]

I believe that the best way for those of us who enjoy the mod to combat those who don’t is to continually express our thanks to the powers that be. We don’t always say it enough, but a big thanks to Pros and all the dev team, as well as the entire DM team for their hard work and tough skin. It takes folks of high caliber to put up with all the requests (reasonable and unreasonable) and the whining, yet continue to recreate, host and moderate a successful and enjoyable mod. Kudos to you all!!!


Cirdan [TC]
Mim [TC]
Angcrist [TC]

Long Live [TC]
Long Live NeverSummer!!!!

[tbarre_ns3]

I would say Pros summed it up perfectly. Neversummer has evolved and continuing to evolve. Requests, complaints, ideas, being thankful, suggestions, hard work, dedication, large player base,,,,all of these have evolved NS to what it is today. As far as the power builds, well they change and evolve the server also and play important decision making factor. I totally understand the nerfing of this build, PM, Y cuz of crit immune, once a server goes crit immune the balance is lost. I am just glad we can still use the PM class myself and have experimented with some builds. Without the nerf we would go back to ultimate tank killers, high ab, high ac and crit immune, which leads to areas being no challenge and boredom and everyone haveing the same build and gear. We already have big power houses now,,,cleric and sorc,,,I must also agree that any restrictions can be a bad thing but are needed for balance. If you dont believe that try a server called Overture, great server but you can get a ring with crit immune, and all the players became uber munchins, so the DEVs started to put slay on there mobs and creatures. Trust me it is not a pretty thing to get slayed by a level 20 goblin with slay. And the server had Dev crit as NS used to have. That was also removed for balance. This is a catch 21 issue when u have players running around as immortal to make a challenge DEVs come up with other ideas that can unbalance the server as some would say, other side is if DEVs make unbeatable areas the players become unhappy. NS has been around for years and has maintained a constant depth of players, and many vets leave and return, and many new ppl join daily. There is great balance to the server, and some tough decisions have been made, but made for a reason of balance. The popularity and history of establishment of NS speaks for itself, Keep in mind this a free server, with years of hard work and player hours have logged. Some decisions are tough for ppl to deal with but were made for good reasons, and I am sure well thought out before the application. It is also noted that alot of ppl enjoy the community of NS, I can agree totally with this. We have some that dont get along, but get along with others, there is a great mix of players, DMs and Devs with NS, and even diffrent flavors of attitude, player style, DM style,,,,in short if that is at all possible at this point,, NS is well balanced and great player based and Kudos and thank you to pros and fang for all the updates in keeping an oldy but a goody alive. And thanks to the players and DMs for dedicaton. This has become more of a mission statement then a repy to a class nerfing.

TJ
NS East

[Forge_ns3]

One Word:


Paragraphs.

[tbarre_ns3]

One Word:


Paragraphs.

What are they, is that a new class?

TJ

[DrakhanValane_ns3]

One Word:


Paragraphs.

What are they, is that a new class? :)

TJ

Naw, just something that enhances the readability of your posts. Y'know, so people (like me) don't immediately ignore everthing you wrote.